4 ms·

Not facing the choice of dying or going bankrupt?

by rwmj 2mo ago

wat10000 2mo ago
What’s the metric for that? The average American has decent health insurance. Our system can be painful and I'm not advocate for it, but the average American is not going bankrupt due to medical issues.
- spockz 2mo ago
  I know this is anecdotal from what I read here and the few engineers I’ve spoken personally. Having a good job is the only way to get good/decent health care. Even then, there are many surprises in terms of what you have to pay yourself and how expensive certain things are. Basically any chronic disease will be very expensive. And don’t lose your job either because then you can kiss the insurance goodbye as well, kicking you even further down. Potentially deep into debt.
  - anon291 2mo ago
    Not really. I was laid off and my daughter literally cut her finger off requiring expensive surgery and orthopedic stuff and my state covered all of it (over 100k in nominal cost) and our overall tax burden is less than most European countries. To be totally honest a lot of people in America don't apply for public benefits for whatever reason. Plenty of my colleagues decided to pay for cobra instead of using free Medicaid which has a zero copay in my state. In another situation, my brother's high school friends dad was preparing to die from prostate cancer because he could afford treatment. My mom made him sign up for public benefits and they covered everything
    - _DeadFred_ 2mo ago
      The big beautiful bill just cut off 4 million people's insurance assistance including mine. But nice, blame the uninsured people for not having insurance because of... checks notes.. the unrelated programs they don't qualify for that almost all states have for coverage for children. Not a very honest 'to be totally honest' no-example example. You friend's dad will most likely be required to give up his home and assets if he survives the treatment. Many US seniors are now divorcing in order to protect their homes and assets from medical expenses.
  - wat10000 2mo ago
    Being poor enough to qualify for Medicaid is another way to get decent care, but it's mostly true if we take "having a good job" to include being part of a family with someone who has one. The thing is, most Americans do have good jobs (or are in families with one), and do have decent health care. Should people with shit jobs have shit health care? No, and it's very unfortunate that this is how things work. But that doesn't mean we all face bankruptcy for major medical issues. The number of people who do face that should be zero and it isn't, but it's also not the norm.
    - _DeadFred_ 2mo ago
      Actually medical debt is the norm for why people face bankruptcy in the USA. 65% of US bankruptcies are due to medical debt. https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/medical-bankruptcies-by-country https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/medical-b...
      - wat10000 2mo ago
        "Most bankruptcies are medical debt" and "most people do not go bankrupt from medical issues" are completely compatible statements.
    - troupo 2mo ago
      > Should people with shit jobs have shit health care? No, and it's very unfortunate that this is how things work. Coming back to my original comment.
  - deleted 2mo ago
    [deleted]
- _DeadFred_ 2mo ago
  100,000,000 American owe $220 billion in medical debt. https://www.ilr.cornell.edu/scheinman-institute/blog/healthcare-insights/healthcare-insights-how-medical-debt-crushing-100-million-americans https://www.ilr.cornell.edu/scheinman-institute/blog/healthc... In the US medical bills are half of all debts sent to collections. 41% of US adults have health care debt, 14 million had medical debts over $1,000 and 3 million had debts over $10,000. https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/brief/the-burden-of-medical-debt-in-the-united-states/ https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/brief/the-burden-of-medi... 65% of US bankruptcies are due to medical debt https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/medical-bankruptcies-by-country https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/medical-b... 530,000 American families file for bankruptcy due to medical bills every year https://balancingeverything.com/medical-bankruptcies-statistics/ https://balancingeverything.com/medical-bankruptcies-statist... Debt burden is strongly associated with increased likelihood of suicide attempt https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33989465/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33989465/ I lost my medical insurance due to the big beautiful bill. It's an interesting change in patriotism when your country says 'you know what, just fucking die because you are rebuilding your life. We don't believe in second chances in the USA'. For millions and millions this country is a ghoulish nightmare.
  - wat10000 2mo ago
    100 million Americans owing $220 billion in medical debt is an average of $2,200 per person. That's too much, but that's not bankruptcy levels of debt. 100 million Americans owe $1.6 trillion in auto loan debt. 530,000 medical bankruptcies per year, in a country of 350 million. That number is too high, but the average American does not go through this. Please understand the difference between saying "everything is great" and "it's not great, but it's not as bad as you say it is." I'm saying the latter, in response to comments incorrectly stating that the average American experience is that major medical issues result in bankruptcy.
    - troupo 2mo ago
      Now add in all the Americans that don't go to doctors to get treated because their insurance doesn't cover it or it's too expensive, and you're again arguing my original comment for me
- deleted 2mo ago
  [deleted]

Not facing the choice of dying or going bankrupt?

by rwmj 2mo ago

Not facing the choice of dying or going bankrupt?

What’s the metric for that? The average American has decent health insurance. Our system can be painful and I'm not advocate for it, but the average American is not going bankrupt due to medical issues.

spockz 2mo ago
I know this is anecdotal from what I read here and the few engineers I’ve spoken personally. Having a good job is the only way to get good/decent health care. Even then, there are many surprises in terms of what you have to pay yourself and how expensive certain things are. Basically any chronic disease will be very expensive. And don’t lose your job either because then you can kiss the insurance goodbye as well, kicking you even further down. Potentially deep into debt.
- anon291 2mo ago
  Not really. I was laid off and my daughter literally cut her finger off requiring expensive surgery and orthopedic stuff and my state covered all of it (over 100k in nominal cost) and our overall tax burden is less than most European countries. To be totally honest a lot of people in America don't apply for public benefits for whatever reason. Plenty of my colleagues decided to pay for cobra instead of using free Medicaid which has a zero copay in my state. In another situation, my brother's high school friends dad was preparing to die from prostate cancer because he could afford treatment. My mom made him sign up for public benefits and they covered everything
  - _DeadFred_ 2mo ago
    The big beautiful bill just cut off 4 million people's insurance assistance including mine. But nice, blame the uninsured people for not having insurance because of... checks notes.. the unrelated programs they don't qualify for that almost all states have for coverage for children. Not a very honest 'to be totally honest' no-example example. You friend's dad will most likely be required to give up his home and assets if he survives the treatment. Many US seniors are now divorcing in order to protect their homes and assets from medical expenses.
- wat10000 2mo ago
  Being poor enough to qualify for Medicaid is another way to get decent care, but it's mostly true if we take "having a good job" to include being part of a family with someone who has one. The thing is, most Americans do have good jobs (or are in families with one), and do have decent health care. Should people with shit jobs have shit health care? No, and it's very unfortunate that this is how things work. But that doesn't mean we all face bankruptcy for major medical issues. The number of people who do face that should be zero and it isn't, but it's also not the norm.
  - _DeadFred_ 2mo ago
    Actually medical debt is the norm for why people face bankruptcy in the USA. 65% of US bankruptcies are due to medical debt. https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/medical-bankruptcies-by-country https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/medical-b...
    - wat10000 2mo ago
      "Most bankruptcies are medical debt" and "most people do not go bankrupt from medical issues" are completely compatible statements.
  - troupo 2mo ago
    > Should people with shit jobs have shit health care? No, and it's very unfortunate that this is how things work. Coming back to my original comment.
- deleted 2mo ago
  [deleted]
_DeadFred_ 2mo ago
100,000,000 American owe $220 billion in medical debt. https://www.ilr.cornell.edu/scheinman-institute/blog/healthcare-insights/healthcare-insights-how-medical-debt-crushing-100-million-americans https://www.ilr.cornell.edu/scheinman-institute/blog/healthc... In the US medical bills are half of all debts sent to collections. 41% of US adults have health care debt, 14 million had medical debts over $1,000 and 3 million had debts over $10,000. https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/brief/the-burden-of-medical-debt-in-the-united-states/ https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/brief/the-burden-of-medi... 65% of US bankruptcies are due to medical debt https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/medical-bankruptcies-by-country https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/medical-b... 530,000 American families file for bankruptcy due to medical bills every year https://balancingeverything.com/medical-bankruptcies-statistics/ https://balancingeverything.com/medical-bankruptcies-statist... Debt burden is strongly associated with increased likelihood of suicide attempt https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33989465/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33989465/ I lost my medical insurance due to the big beautiful bill. It's an interesting change in patriotism when your country says 'you know what, just fucking die because you are rebuilding your life. We don't believe in second chances in the USA'. For millions and millions this country is a ghoulish nightmare.
- wat10000 2mo ago
  100 million Americans owing $220 billion in medical debt is an average of $2,200 per person. That's too much, but that's not bankruptcy levels of debt. 100 million Americans owe $1.6 trillion in auto loan debt. 530,000 medical bankruptcies per year, in a country of 350 million. That number is too high, but the average American does not go through this. Please understand the difference between saying "everything is great" and "it's not great, but it's not as bad as you say it is." I'm saying the latter, in response to comments incorrectly stating that the average American experience is that major medical issues result in bankruptcy.
  - troupo 2mo ago
    Now add in all the Americans that don't go to doctors to get treated because their insurance doesn't cover it or it's too expensive, and you're again arguing my original comment for me
deleted 2mo ago
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