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> What discontent do you mean? I mean, Brexit was the ultimate discontent and it didn't just come out of nowhere. It's still very recent history and, as far a

by petcat 2mo ago

> What discontent do you mean? I mean, Brexit was the ultimate discontent and it didn't just come out of nowhere. It's still very recent history and, as far as I know, the circumstances that caused it haven't really changed.

riffraff 2mo ago
Brexit came out of a many years campaign to steer up hate against the EU. Boris Johnson famously said that was his job as a journalist. And of course, out of the middle class crisis in the 21st century. You have the same discontent outside the EU, except it doesn't get blamed on Bruxelles. That's how Trump gets elected, for example.
rwmj 2mo ago
Brexit is widely regarded as both a failure (in the UK) and a cautionary lesson (in the rest of the EU).
- gyanchawdhary 2mo ago
  By widely you mean the guardian readership ? Or some left leaning poll ? What’s your source ?
  - rsynnott 2mo ago
    It is fairly clear that all polling favours rejoining: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potential_re-accession_of_the_United_Kingdom_to_the_European_Union#Opinion_polling https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potential_re-accession_of_the_... Interestingly, the inflection point seems to have been within months of the UK actually leaving (while the UK formally left in Jan 2020, nothing changed until Jan 2021).
    - gyanchawdhary 2mo ago
      i see. so according to you (and the polsters) i guess its fair to conclude that a significant majority either wanted to remain in the EU or came to feel that way after brexit ... to further play along .. nigel farage .. an outsider to the political system (lets call him political white hat hacker) .. was able to exploit vulnerabilities in this system and the public opinion to get brexit over the line .. I'm curious to understand why those vulnerabilities existed in the first place .. and why weren’t they patched? also once you get hacked, its a sobering experience and u invest more in fixing the root cause .. so net net .. even with your narrative, brexit has been amazing for Great Britain (the best country in the world imho)
      - rsynnott 2mo ago
        It was really more Johnson than Farage, though he was by no means the only mover. There had been a campaign to convince the British people that all their problems were down to the EC/EU since the early 70s. Remember, a lot of brexit voters voted for, essentially, a completely fantasy situation; they thought they'd be getting a situation similar to Norway, only with no free movement and with opt-outs from all rules. The EU was extremely clear from the beginning that this was not on the table (it never made sense in the first place; you can't have a single market where one participant is excused from following any of the rules), but Johnson et al were telling them that was what they were voting for. The hard(ish) brexit they ended up with is very much not what most people will have been expecting.
  - rwmj 2mo ago
    https://www.statista.com/statistics/987347/brexit-opinion-poll/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/987347/brexit-opinion-po...
spockz 2mo ago
IMHO, Brexit was mostly an exercise in placing the blame in a single “entity” instead of circumstances. Fishing gets harder due to over fishing. Technical advantages and industries moving have made certain classes of work such as mining and steel factories redundant or moved to other (cheaper) locations. This left a lot of the lower income classes and many middle income classes which jobs depends on servicing the lower income (restaurants, clothing, automotive industry, etc.) hanging in the wind. Then instead of accepting the changing circumstances of the world, it is blamed on a single entity “EU” that is single handedly causing all their woes. Just leave and your lives will be better. Well, they learned. This is how you get people to vote for someone like trump. They claim it is all the fault of some X, get people riled up, promise to fix X, get voted, and then you have to actually make their lives better.
- hdgvhicv 2mo ago
  They didn’t learn. Those That voted to leave are either dead now, or still think it’s right, but the uk was “holding it wrong”. The majority of taxpayers wanted to stay. The majority of under 65s wanted to stay.
  - gyanchawdhary 2mo ago
    Wrong. I’m a 40 something ethnic minority guy and I voted to leave. Back then I was in my 30s. Whats true is that remainers were more vocal and loud about their message, whilst the silent majority did what silent majorities do .. quietly won, they always do.
    - hdgvhicv 2mo ago
      you’re in the minority of under 65s who voted to kill the economy and take away freedoms. You’re in the minority of workers (assuming you work). Nobody claimed no one under 65 voted for Brexit, just the majority. At your age in rhe 25-35 bracket you were outnumbered 2:1. If votes were weighed by years you have to live with it remain would have won with about 65%. I hope you’re enjoying it.
rsynnott 2mo ago
The UK was always, ah, _special_. Factions in the UK were propagandising for some sort of Brexit essentially since the UK joined the EC. That said, recent polling _in the UK_ shows a solid majority favouring rejoining the EU. About 20% of people _who voted leave_ now appear to favour rejoining the EU. Brexit actually getting sufficient support to win a referendum was kind of a moment-in-time thing.

by petcat 2mo ago

riffraff 2mo ago

Brexit came out of a many years campaign to steer up hate against the EU. Boris Johnson famously said that was his job as a journalist. And of course, out of the middle class crisis in the 21st century. You have the same discontent outside the EU, except it doesn't get blamed on Bruxelles. That's how Trump gets elected, for example.

rwmj 2mo ago

Brexit is widely regarded as both a failure (in the UK) and a cautionary lesson (in the rest of the EU).

gyanchawdhary 2mo ago
By widely you mean the guardian readership ? Or some left leaning poll ? What’s your source ?
- rsynnott 2mo ago
  It is fairly clear that all polling favours rejoining: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potential_re-accession_of_the_United_Kingdom_to_the_European_Union#Opinion_polling https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potential_re-accession_of_the_... Interestingly, the inflection point seems to have been within months of the UK actually leaving (while the UK formally left in Jan 2020, nothing changed until Jan 2021).
  - gyanchawdhary 2mo ago
    i see. so according to you (and the polsters) i guess its fair to conclude that a significant majority either wanted to remain in the EU or came to feel that way after brexit ... to further play along .. nigel farage .. an outsider to the political system (lets call him political white hat hacker) .. was able to exploit vulnerabilities in this system and the public opinion to get brexit over the line .. I'm curious to understand why those vulnerabilities existed in the first place .. and why weren’t they patched? also once you get hacked, its a sobering experience and u invest more in fixing the root cause .. so net net .. even with your narrative, brexit has been amazing for Great Britain (the best country in the world imho)
    - rsynnott 2mo ago
      It was really more Johnson than Farage, though he was by no means the only mover. There had been a campaign to convince the British people that all their problems were down to the EC/EU since the early 70s. Remember, a lot of brexit voters voted for, essentially, a completely fantasy situation; they thought they'd be getting a situation similar to Norway, only with no free movement and with opt-outs from all rules. The EU was extremely clear from the beginning that this was not on the table (it never made sense in the first place; you can't have a single market where one participant is excused from following any of the rules), but Johnson et al were telling them that was what they were voting for. The hard(ish) brexit they ended up with is very much not what most people will have been expecting.
- rwmj 2mo ago
  https://www.statista.com/statistics/987347/brexit-opinion-poll/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/987347/brexit-opinion-po...

spockz 2mo ago

IMHO, Brexit was mostly an exercise in placing the blame in a single “entity” instead of circumstances. Fishing gets harder due to over fishing. Technical advantages and industries moving have made certain classes of work such as mining and steel factories redundant or moved to other (cheaper) locations. This left a lot of the lower income classes and many middle income classes which jobs depends on servicing the lower income (restaurants, clothing, automotive industry, etc.) hanging in the wind. Then instead of accepting the changing circumstances of the world, it is blamed on a single entity “EU” that is single handedly causing all their woes. Just leave and your lives will be better. Well, they learned. This is how you get people to vote for someone like trump. They claim it is all the fault of some X, get people riled up, promise to fix X, get voted, and then you have to actually make their lives better.

hdgvhicv 2mo ago
They didn’t learn. Those That voted to leave are either dead now, or still think it’s right, but the uk was “holding it wrong”. The majority of taxpayers wanted to stay. The majority of under 65s wanted to stay.
- gyanchawdhary 2mo ago
  Wrong. I’m a 40 something ethnic minority guy and I voted to leave. Back then I was in my 30s. Whats true is that remainers were more vocal and loud about their message, whilst the silent majority did what silent majorities do .. quietly won, they always do.
  - hdgvhicv 2mo ago
    you’re in the minority of under 65s who voted to kill the economy and take away freedoms. You’re in the minority of workers (assuming you work). Nobody claimed no one under 65 voted for Brexit, just the majority. At your age in rhe 25-35 bracket you were outnumbered 2:1. If votes were weighed by years you have to live with it remain would have won with about 65%. I hope you’re enjoying it.

rsynnott 2mo ago

The UK was always, ah, _special_. Factions in the UK were propagandising for some sort of Brexit essentially since the UK joined the EC. That said, recent polling _in the UK_ shows a solid majority favouring rejoining the EU. About 20% of people _who voted leave_ now appear to favour rejoining the EU. Brexit actually getting sufficient support to win a referendum was kind of a moment-in-time thing.