4 ms·

> there a lot of micro-nations in eastern Europe that have outsized influence over the union as a whole Would you give an example of when that has happened? >

by mmooss 2mo ago

> there a lot of micro-nations in eastern Europe that have outsized influence over the union as a whole Would you give an example of when that has happened? > It just seems like the EU is too top-heavy The EU intentionally admitted many poorer countries, to promote freedom, security and stability in Europe in the long term. Without EU membership, they would be under pressure from Russia and others. > discontent What discontent do you mean? There's always something, of course.

inglor_cz 2mo ago
> The EU intentionally admitted many poorer countries, to promote freedom, security and stability in Europe in the long term. Without EU membership, they would be under pressure from Russia and others. This is a bit of a non-sequitur, at least as far as Eurozone's anemic growth is concerned. France and Germany stagnating isn't caused by Poland or Romania growing. It is mostly their own internal systemic problems. There were times when German and Polish economies were both healthy, as little as 10 years ago. Sweden, another rich EU member, should grow by healthy 2.2 per cent this year, but Sweden is a lot more willing to actually reform its way out of problems than Germany is. Smaller countries have less inertia in such situations, and more maneuvering space.
- mmooss 2mo ago
  Yours is the non-sequitur: I responded to a claim that the EU was 'top-heavy', which I interpreted as 'economic output is concentrated in a few countries'. Regardless of GDP growth, Germany and France output far more than some much smaller but faster growing countries.
petcat 2mo ago
> What discontent do you mean? I mean, Brexit was the ultimate discontent and it didn't just come out of nowhere. It's still very recent history and, as far as I know, the circumstances that caused it haven't really changed.
- riffraff 2mo ago
  Brexit came out of a many years campaign to steer up hate against the EU. Boris Johnson famously said that was his job as a journalist. And of course, out of the middle class crisis in the 21st century. You have the same discontent outside the EU, except it doesn't get blamed on Bruxelles. That's how Trump gets elected, for example.
- rwmj 2mo ago
  Brexit is widely regarded as both a failure (in the UK) and a cautionary lesson (in the rest of the EU).
  - gyanchawdhary 2mo ago
    By widely you mean the guardian readership ? Or some left leaning poll ? What’s your source ?
    - rsynnott 2mo ago
      It is fairly clear that all polling favours rejoining: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potential_re-accession_of_the_United_Kingdom_to_the_European_Union#Opinion_polling https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potential_re-accession_of_the_... Interestingly, the inflection point seems to have been within months of the UK actually leaving (while the UK formally left in Jan 2020, nothing changed until Jan 2021).
      - gyanchawdhary 2mo ago
        i see. so according to you (and the polsters) i guess its fair to conclude that a significant majority either wanted to remain in the EU or came to feel that way after brexit ... to further play along .. nigel farage .. an outsider to the political system (lets call him political white hat hacker) .. was able to exploit vulnerabilities in this system and the public opinion to get brexit over the line .. I'm curious to understand why those vulnerabilities existed in the first place .. and why weren’t they patched? also once you get hacked, its a sobering experience and u invest more in fixing the root cause .. so net net .. even with your narrative, brexit has been amazing for Great Britain (the best country in the world imho)

by mmooss 2mo ago

inglor_cz 2mo ago

> The EU intentionally admitted many poorer countries, to promote freedom, security and stability in Europe in the long term. Without EU membership, they would be under pressure from Russia and others. This is a bit of a non-sequitur, at least as far as Eurozone's anemic growth is concerned. France and Germany stagnating isn't caused by Poland or Romania growing. It is mostly their own internal systemic problems. There were times when German and Polish economies were both healthy, as little as 10 years ago. Sweden, another rich EU member, should grow by healthy 2.2 per cent this year, but Sweden is a lot more willing to actually reform its way out of problems than Germany is. Smaller countries have less inertia in such situations, and more maneuvering space.

mmooss 2mo ago
Yours is the non-sequitur: I responded to a claim that the EU was 'top-heavy', which I interpreted as 'economic output is concentrated in a few countries'. Regardless of GDP growth, Germany and France output far more than some much smaller but faster growing countries.

petcat 2mo ago

> What discontent do you mean? I mean, Brexit was the ultimate discontent and it didn't just come out of nowhere. It's still very recent history and, as far as I know, the circumstances that caused it haven't really changed.

riffraff 2mo ago
Brexit came out of a many years campaign to steer up hate against the EU. Boris Johnson famously said that was his job as a journalist. And of course, out of the middle class crisis in the 21st century. You have the same discontent outside the EU, except it doesn't get blamed on Bruxelles. That's how Trump gets elected, for example.
rwmj 2mo ago
Brexit is widely regarded as both a failure (in the UK) and a cautionary lesson (in the rest of the EU).
- gyanchawdhary 2mo ago
  By widely you mean the guardian readership ? Or some left leaning poll ? What’s your source ?
  - rsynnott 2mo ago
    It is fairly clear that all polling favours rejoining: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potential_re-accession_of_the_United_Kingdom_to_the_European_Union#Opinion_polling https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potential_re-accession_of_the_... Interestingly, the inflection point seems to have been within months of the UK actually leaving (while the UK formally left in Jan 2020, nothing changed until Jan 2021).
    - gyanchawdhary 2mo ago
      i see. so according to you (and the polsters) i guess its fair to conclude that a significant majority either wanted to remain in the EU or came to feel that way after brexit ... to further play along .. nigel farage .. an outsider to the political system (lets call him political white hat hacker) .. was able to exploit vulnerabilities in this system and the public opinion to get brexit over the line .. I'm curious to understand why those vulnerabilities existed in the first place .. and why weren’t they patched? also once you get hacked, its a sobering experience and u invest more in fixing the root cause .. so net net .. even with your narrative, brexit has been amazing for Great Britain (the best country in the world imho)