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I’m exploring how to use AI for faith oriented experiences and products. There are two specific areas I’m interested in. I’m furthest along with this app in the

by jmathai 2mo ago

I’m exploring how to use AI for faith oriented experiences and products. There are two specific areas I’m interested in. I’m furthest along with this app in the App Store. https://trysojourn.app https://trysojourn.app 1) grounding LLM scripture references in the actual text and eliminating hallucinations. This is the platform for that. https://withlattice.com https://withlattice.com 2) how to use AI to get people into scripture more as opposed to being a substitute for it. This is the product I made for it - it uses #1 above. https://trysojourn.app https://trysojourn.app

angoragoats 2mo ago
Why would you not instead use your skills to "get people into" reading books that have actual verifiable truth, that advance their knowledge about the world, that educate them about history, mathematics, philosophy, logic, reason, etc?
- deleted 2mo ago
  [deleted]
- analog8374 2mo ago
  framing accusations as questions is so last millennium.
  - angoragoats 2mo ago
    What accusations am I making? Pretending that you can read someone’s mind is pretty dishonest as well.
  - deleted 2mo ago
    [deleted]
- aristofun 2mo ago
  This is such a dumb comment on so many levels lol
  - angoragoats 2mo ago
    lol care to elaborate or are you just here to sling insults?
    - aristofun 2mo ago
      Care to support your silly insults and claims with serious data points that would scientifically prove and “verify” that help researching civilizations shaping scriptures is worthless? I guess not, therefore it was a comment from personal resentment and ignorance, aka “dumb”.
      - angoragoats 2mo ago
        I made no claims or insults. The person I was replying to said nothing about “researching civilizations shaping scriptures.” They are making an app whose primary purpose is to quote Bible verses to the user. Are you sure you’re replying in the right thread?
        aristofun 2mo ago
        Now you’re acting stupid again. intentionally? Your question contains an insulting implication. Accurate quoting of scriptires is obviously aiding research, either personal spiritual or academic and everything in between (why else would you care about accuracy?). And you showed obvious disrespect to this work, now trying to reframe yourself as if you didn’t mean anything. Have at least some decency to own and stay your ground.
        defrost 2mo ago
        Please don't fulminate or post snarky comments on HN. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
        angoragoats 2mo ago
        > Your question contains an insulting implication What is the insulting implication? I do apologize if you're insulted by the fact that there doesn't appear to exist any way to verify the non-mundane or supernatural claims in ancient religious texts, but that is a fact. In the case of the Bible specifically, it is evidenced by the fact that no one in ~2000 years has done it. And in the case of certain Biblical claims, e.g. that there was a global flood, that everything in existence was created in seven days and in a specific (nonsensical) order, and that it's possible for someone to be resurrected from the dead, there is overwhelming scientific evidence against them. If you think I'm wrong, I would welcome published and peer-reviewed citations. I'm completely open to changing my view. > Accurate quoting of scriptires is obviously aiding research, either personal spiritual or academic and everything in between Your previous reply implied that I was claiming that "help researching civilizations shaping scriptures is worthless." I took this to mean something specific: anthropological research regarding human civilizations that were involved in shaping religious texts. Now you appear to be widening your claim to any research of any sort (including "personal spiritual," which is definitely not research in the academic sense of the term). I apologize if I misunderstood your original point, but if I didn't, it's dishonest to change it mid-argument. > And you showed obvious disrespect to this work, now trying to reframe yourself as if you didn’t mean anything. First, let me apologize for being unclear on one thing in my reply: I said "I made no claims or insults." When I said "claims", I meant "claims regarding researching civilizations shaping scriptures" (the thing you accused me of making claims about). Second, I'll be crystal clear: if you're referring to the Bible, I don't believe it's a text worthy of respect. As an undoubtedly influential text, of course it's worthy of study, and it's worthy of analysis, but I believe study and analysis show that it's a book full of vile things like how to own human beings as property, how to commit genocide, how to physically and sexually abuse others, etc. I am happy to provide citations of specific bible verses that support those claims, including citations in the original Hebrew/Greek for words that might have gotten changed in different translations (e.g. עבד being translated as "servant" vs "slave"). But I'm not sure HN is the place for such detail. > Have at least some decency to own and stay your ground. I would gently advise you to do the same, or at least be clearer about what you mean.
- qsera 2mo ago
  > actual verifiable truth.. Do you know what tomorrow holds, as an actual verifiable truth? I suppose no, but why do you act like you know something about it. Like you plan for the next day, and you plan for an uncertain future. Point is, hope is important. And things that bring hope, even if it is not "actual verifiable truth", is valuable. Sure a lot of exploitation happen in the name of religion. But I would say that exploitation happen in the name of science as well. It might be time to stop shaming people for following religion and god. Because humanity have seemed to have throw out the baby with the bath water in the name of rationality. It might be time to correct that mistake.
  - angoragoats 2mo ago
    > Point is, hope is important. And things that bring hope, even if it is not "actual verifiable truth", is valuable. Sure, I agree with this as a general statement. > Sure a lot of exploitation happen in the name of religion. But I would say that exploitation happen in the name of science as well. Mass sexual abuse of children, mass murder, genocide, and terrorism are all things that have happened and continue to happen in the name of religion. I am not aware of any of these things happening in the name of science. Sure, there might be some examples of unethical experiments or other bad stuff, but it seems the scale of the atrocities is way larger on one side than the other. > Because humanity have seemed to have throw out the baby with the bath water in the name of rationality. It might be time to correct that mistake. I don't understand what you mean. I believe things that have evidence to support them. The Christian religion specifically, which is what the parent's app was about, is not supported by any empirical evidence that I'm aware of. Its holy book contains quite a few logical impossibilities and straight up false information, and the god of the book condones atrocities such as slavery and genocide. It doesn't seem to be true, so I don't think it's worth "hoping" it's true. And if I’m wrong on this, and the Christian god someday makes himself known, then I’ll believe he exists, but I certainly still wouldn’t worship him. Maybe other religions are worth believing in (if you have examples with evidence suggesting they're true, I'd consider them!), but Christianity in particular seems to be clearly riddled with falsehoods and immoral behavior.
    - qsera 2mo ago

by jmathai 2mo ago

angoragoats 2mo ago

Why would you not instead use your skills to "get people into" reading books that have actual verifiable truth, that advance their knowledge about the world, that educate them about history, mathematics, philosophy, logic, reason, etc?

deleted 2mo ago
[deleted]
analog8374 2mo ago
framing accusations as questions is so last millennium.
- angoragoats 2mo ago
  What accusations am I making? Pretending that you can read someone’s mind is pretty dishonest as well.
- deleted 2mo ago
  [deleted]
aristofun 2mo ago
This is such a dumb comment on so many levels lol
- angoragoats 2mo ago
  lol care to elaborate or are you just here to sling insults?
  - aristofun 2mo ago
    Care to support your silly insults and claims with serious data points that would scientifically prove and “verify” that help researching civilizations shaping scriptures is worthless? I guess not, therefore it was a comment from personal resentment and ignorance, aka “dumb”.
    - angoragoats 2mo ago
      I made no claims or insults. The person I was replying to said nothing about “researching civilizations shaping scriptures.” They are making an app whose primary purpose is to quote Bible verses to the user. Are you sure you’re replying in the right thread?
      - aristofun 2mo ago
        Now you’re acting stupid again. intentionally? Your question contains an insulting implication. Accurate quoting of scriptires is obviously aiding research, either personal spiritual or academic and everything in between (why else would you care about accuracy?). And you showed obvious disrespect to this work, now trying to reframe yourself as if you didn’t mean anything. Have at least some decency to own and stay your ground.
        defrost 2mo ago
        Please don't fulminate or post snarky comments on HN. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
        angoragoats 2mo ago
        > Your question contains an insulting implication What is the insulting implication? I do apologize if you're insulted by the fact that there doesn't appear to exist any way to verify the non-mundane or supernatural claims in ancient religious texts, but that is a fact. In the case of the Bible specifically, it is evidenced by the fact that no one in ~2000 years has done it. And in the case of certain Biblical claims, e.g. that there was a global flood, that everything in existence was created in seven days and in a specific (nonsensical) order, and that it's possible for someone to be resurrected from the dead, there is overwhelming scientific evidence against them. If you think I'm wrong, I would welcome published and peer-reviewed citations. I'm completely open to changing my view. > Accurate quoting of scriptires is obviously aiding research, either personal spiritual or academic and everything in between Your previous reply implied that I was claiming that "help researching civilizations shaping scriptures is worthless." I took this to mean something specific: anthropological research regarding human civilizations that were involved in shaping religious texts. Now you appear to be widening your claim to any research of any sort (including "personal spiritual," which is definitely not research in the academic sense of the term). I apologize if I misunderstood your original point, but if I didn't, it's dishonest to change it mid-argument. > And you showed obvious disrespect to this work, now trying to reframe yourself as if you didn’t mean anything. First, let me apologize for being unclear on one thing in my reply: I said "I made no claims or insults." When I said "claims", I meant "claims regarding researching civilizations shaping scriptures" (the thing you accused me of making claims about). Second, I'll be crystal clear: if you're referring to the Bible, I don't believe it's a text worthy of respect. As an undoubtedly influential text, of course it's worthy of study, and it's worthy of analysis, but I believe study and analysis show that it's a book full of vile things like how to own human beings as property, how to commit genocide, how to physically and sexually abuse others, etc. I am happy to provide citations of specific bible verses that support those claims, including citations in the original Hebrew/Greek for words that might have gotten changed in different translations (e.g. עבד being translated as "servant" vs "slave"). But I'm not sure HN is the place for such detail. > Have at least some decency to own and stay your ground. I would gently advise you to do the same, or at least be clearer about what you mean.
qsera 2mo ago
> actual verifiable truth.. Do you know what tomorrow holds, as an actual verifiable truth? I suppose no, but why do you act like you know something about it. Like you plan for the next day, and you plan for an uncertain future. Point is, hope is important. And things that bring hope, even if it is not "actual verifiable truth", is valuable. Sure a lot of exploitation happen in the name of religion. But I would say that exploitation happen in the name of science as well. It might be time to stop shaming people for following religion and god. Because humanity have seemed to have throw out the baby with the bath water in the name of rationality. It might be time to correct that mistake.
- angoragoats 2mo ago
  > Point is, hope is important. And things that bring hope, even if it is not "actual verifiable truth", is valuable. Sure, I agree with this as a general statement. > Sure a lot of exploitation happen in the name of religion. But I would say that exploitation happen in the name of science as well. Mass sexual abuse of children, mass murder, genocide, and terrorism are all things that have happened and continue to happen in the name of religion. I am not aware of any of these things happening in the name of science. Sure, there might be some examples of unethical experiments or other bad stuff, but it seems the scale of the atrocities is way larger on one side than the other. > Because humanity have seemed to have throw out the baby with the bath water in the name of rationality. It might be time to correct that mistake. I don't understand what you mean. I believe things that have evidence to support them. The Christian religion specifically, which is what the parent's app was about, is not supported by any empirical evidence that I'm aware of. Its holy book contains quite a few logical impossibilities and straight up false information, and the god of the book condones atrocities such as slavery and genocide. It doesn't seem to be true, so I don't think it's worth "hoping" it's true. And if I’m wrong on this, and the Christian god someday makes himself known, then I’ll believe he exists, but I certainly still wouldn’t worship him. Maybe other religions are worth believing in (if you have examples with evidence suggesting they're true, I'd consider them!), but Christianity in particular seems to be clearly riddled with falsehoods and immoral behavior.
  - qsera 2mo ago