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Steel manning this argument: Electronic warfare resistant loitering munitions. They would transmit sparse point clouds to the enemy for training. Not saying

Steel manning this argument: Electronic warfare resistant loitering munitions. They would transmit sparse point clouds to the enemy for training. Not saying I support it.

anigbrowl 2mo ago
How is this worse than 4k video, in this age of analytical abundance? The steel content of this argument is pretty low; it's essentially 'technology operates normally = national security risk.' Why not ban pencils? You can draw maps or schematics of secret things, plus they can be used to stab people!
- 0x20cowboy 2mo ago
  https://m.youtube.com/shorts/U1MigIJXJx8 https://m.youtube.com/shorts/U1MigIJXJx8
- monster_truck 2mo ago
  4k video is worthless compared to LiDAR. You are never going to get sub millisecond dead reckoning from video processing. Previously this required things like extremely expensive, export controlled ring laser gyroscopes (they do not drift and cannot be easily interfered with or jammed like the cheap IMU in your phone) There are many more reasons LiDAR kicks ass but none of them have anything to do with why they are doing this.
  - snypher 2mo ago
    >4k video is worthless compared to LiDAR. You should do some more research into structure-from-motion and get back to us. Lidar is nice for real-time data, but these days anyone can process a 4k stream and get excellent geometry data.
    - greenavocado 2mo ago
      Compare the energy cost of computation for SfM compared to sparse point cloud match
      - anigbrowl 2mo ago
        This is pretty marginal compared to the energy cost of keeping the drone and its payload in the air; also the original objection was that the data might get used for training, which can be an offline process. For example, you could fly a drone with 4k cameras around while navigating manually, then subsequently compute an environmental model from the recorded footage. If a hypothetical hostile and weaponized drone is later deployed with a pretrained navigational model, it might have 4k and/or LIDAR whose function would be to verify rather than figure out navigation; in a state of hostility we can assume the owners of the drone would be indifferent to local rules.
    - monster_truck 2mo ago
      You're not doing that to 4k60 in microsecond timeframes brother, especially not for driftless navigation
  - overfeed 2mo ago
    > 4k video is worthless compared to LiDAR. You are never going to get sub millisecond dead reckoning from video processing Will America's foes heinously attack the homeland by offering socialistic self-driving vehicles? What exactly the threat model here, that makes Lidar data dangerous? Space-based remote sensing is superior in almost every way.
    - monster_truck 2mo ago
      If I had to reach for something I would have to guess they're attempting to hinder their use in renewables. Generally speaking they are not too popular in weapons because shooting a bunch of lasers out of your nose is not exactly stealthy Before we had these, wind farms used to have to poach cell phone tower guys to climb up every single one. Had a neighbor who did this, it pays insanely well but my palms sweat just thinking about it.
tamimio 2mo ago
> Electronic warfare resistant loitering munitions Most fpv drones don’t even have GNSS, they fly on acro mode or manual one, so that won’t prevent a “loitering munition”. Now for gnss denied autonomous navigation, Lidar isn’t the corner stone part, for indoor ones other sensors do well if not better like stereo cams, outdoor, you don’t need Lidar that much, but also you can use image based navigation, where it compares prestored images to land marks to navigate accurately. That being said, it’s not like Lidars are completely banned, you can buy one, 2d or 3d lidar, and equip it on your drone that you built, you don’t need dji to have it ready for you, so that ban won’t really mitigate any risk assuming there is one. > They would transmit sparse point clouds to the enemy for training Restricted facilities already restrict any kind of drone, other locations you can access these info without the need to transmit any point clouds data anyway.

Steel manning this argument: Electronic warfare resistant loitering munitions. They would transmit sparse point clouds to the enemy for training. Not saying I support it.

anigbrowl 2mo ago

How is this worse than 4k video, in this age of analytical abundance? The steel content of this argument is pretty low; it's essentially 'technology operates normally = national security risk.' Why not ban pencils? You can draw maps or schematics of secret things, plus they can be used to stab people!

0x20cowboy 2mo ago
https://m.youtube.com/shorts/U1MigIJXJx8 https://m.youtube.com/shorts/U1MigIJXJx8
monster_truck 2mo ago
4k video is worthless compared to LiDAR. You are never going to get sub millisecond dead reckoning from video processing. Previously this required things like extremely expensive, export controlled ring laser gyroscopes (they do not drift and cannot be easily interfered with or jammed like the cheap IMU in your phone) There are many more reasons LiDAR kicks ass but none of them have anything to do with why they are doing this.
- snypher 2mo ago
  >4k video is worthless compared to LiDAR. You should do some more research into structure-from-motion and get back to us. Lidar is nice for real-time data, but these days anyone can process a 4k stream and get excellent geometry data.
  - greenavocado 2mo ago
    Compare the energy cost of computation for SfM compared to sparse point cloud match
    - anigbrowl 2mo ago
      This is pretty marginal compared to the energy cost of keeping the drone and its payload in the air; also the original objection was that the data might get used for training, which can be an offline process. For example, you could fly a drone with 4k cameras around while navigating manually, then subsequently compute an environmental model from the recorded footage. If a hypothetical hostile and weaponized drone is later deployed with a pretrained navigational model, it might have 4k and/or LIDAR whose function would be to verify rather than figure out navigation; in a state of hostility we can assume the owners of the drone would be indifferent to local rules.
  - monster_truck 2mo ago
    You're not doing that to 4k60 in microsecond timeframes brother, especially not for driftless navigation
- overfeed 2mo ago
  > 4k video is worthless compared to LiDAR. You are never going to get sub millisecond dead reckoning from video processing Will America's foes heinously attack the homeland by offering socialistic self-driving vehicles? What exactly the threat model here, that makes Lidar data dangerous? Space-based remote sensing is superior in almost every way.
  - monster_truck 2mo ago
    If I had to reach for something I would have to guess they're attempting to hinder their use in renewables. Generally speaking they are not too popular in weapons because shooting a bunch of lasers out of your nose is not exactly stealthy Before we had these, wind farms used to have to poach cell phone tower guys to climb up every single one. Had a neighbor who did this, it pays insanely well but my palms sweat just thinking about it.

tamimio 2mo ago

> Electronic warfare resistant loitering munitions Most fpv drones don’t even have GNSS, they fly on acro mode or manual one, so that won’t prevent a “loitering munition”. Now for gnss denied autonomous navigation, Lidar isn’t the corner stone part, for indoor ones other sensors do well if not better like stereo cams, outdoor, you don’t need Lidar that much, but also you can use image based navigation, where it compares prestored images to land marks to navigate accurately. That being said, it’s not like Lidars are completely banned, you can buy one, 2d or 3d lidar, and equip it on your drone that you built, you don’t need dji to have it ready for you, so that ban won’t really mitigate any risk assuming there is one. > They would transmit sparse point clouds to the enemy for training Restricted facilities already restrict any kind of drone, other locations you can access these info without the need to transmit any point clouds data anyway.