3 ms·

Another move to remove competition for Don Jr.?

ACCount37 2mo ago
That, or to avoid surrendering yet another technology relevant to the future to China. As if them manufacturing the bulk of world's solar panels, wind turbines and heading for EVs isn't bad enough.
- 05 2mo ago
  US companies don't even sell consumer drones, so are they going to stay competitive by forcing consumers to buy $4000 enterprise models for their kids to play with?
  - ACCount37 2mo ago
    Hobbyist drones also don't ship with lidar in stock. The concern isn't China dominating the area of $20 toys. The concern is platforms relevant to industry and military. Whether that, in turn, can be disentangled from "the area of $20 toys" in case of drones is unclear to me.
    - 0x457 2mo ago
      That is false. DJI Air 3S, Mini 5 Pro, Mavic 4 Pro, and even the Neo 2 are consumer drones that ship with forward-facing LiDAR for obstacle avoidance. FCC proposal doesn’t distinguish that safety sensor from mapping-grade or military LiDAR - it covers any drone that “contains or integrates” LiDAR. If Air and Mini ain't hobbyist grade idk what is.
    - 05 2mo ago
      > Hobbyist drones also don't ship with lidar in stock. Is Neo a $20 toy? LIDARs are getting cheap quick, at some point when ToF sensors add $10 to BoM they will be in all drones.. I guess except US only SKUs? Not like you can't get pretty much the same data using just a single camera, GPS+IMU fusion and structure-from-motion..
    - Danox 2mo ago
      That ship has sailed all of the countries that can get into space know every square inch of every piece of territory in every country of the world, there isn’t any place to hide, the local American drone makers in America for example don’t want to make civilian drones. They want guaranteed contracts from the American government selling high priced military equipment civilians be damned.
- PunchyHamster 2mo ago
  That isn't stopping them from developing LIDAR in any way Moreover they also have 2 market leaders in that techs
- anigbrowl 2mo ago
  I mean, the rest of the world still exists and is generally happy to buy reasonably priced Chinese tech. American isolationists get rather carried away by geography to the point of assuming the rest of world is in a state of cinematic collapse with a few super enemies stalking the ruins. Trump's comments the other day suggesting he's capable of destroying the Swiss economy overnight demonstrate a sort of socioeconomic myopia predicated on the idea that the US is the only consumer market that matters.
- t-writescode 2mo ago
  If we cared enough to be effective, we would be subsidizing / encouraging local manufacture of all of those at a competitive, non-luxury price.
  - dgellow 2mo ago
    That would need to start with building the manufacturing infrastructure. But that requires to work on long term goals, something the west hasn’t been doing that well over the last 30+ years
    - bigbadfeline 2mo ago
      Market bubbles make way more money than making things. That's why making things gets no money, only bans.
    - t-writescode 2mo ago
      No argument here.
- dgellow 2mo ago
  China has been leading in drones since a very long time. It’s not something they took from the US
  - Joel_Mckay 2mo ago
    Sure, China started manufacturing the $8 motors at a steep discount which drove amateur $27.50 competition out of business, than initially sold $60 LiPol batteries for $7 to starve other manufacturers out of business for years. Finally, purchased rare earth mines across the planet to secure their economic position long into the future. China party policy was successful, and just a bit better at state-backed monopolistic control of supply & demand than many folks including the US. Gaslighting policy losers of outsourcing by insisting it never happened just angers people. That is how it happened, and most open-hardware community projects are still sold on China websites within a few weeks. It is just a cultural opinion on IP ownership that differs. =3
    - Danox 2mo ago
      The upper class management shipped everything overseas, and still claim they can’t do anything on shore in America. If they can’t send it to China they’ll send it to Vietnam, India or Indonesia the excuses will never end.
      - Joel_Mckay 2mo ago
        Not if the magnets cost more than the retail price of the product. China policy was made by teams of Engineers within The Party, and operate very differently than disconnected US trust-fund kids. =3
    - nl 2mo ago
      > $8 motors at a steep discount What does this even mean? There are tens (hundreds?) of cheap electric motor manufactures in China. You can go and order some custom motor yourself and get a quote, and yes you get a discount if you order more. That is what free enterprise is! It seems odd that China seems to need to teach (presumably) US people this? > than initially sold $60 LiPol batteries for $7 to starve other manufacturers out of business for years You make it sounds like this was somehow strange or dodgy or something. Yes, other manufactures couldn't produce them as cheaply. There was no magic Chinese government subsidy or something outside the normal tax reductions the local governments give for setting up factories in their district (the same as in the US!)
- deleted 2mo ago
  [deleted]
- georgemcbay 2mo ago
  Stopping US import of any of these technologies doesn't suddenly make them disappear. They still exist. You can't "ignore them and they'll go away", this is real life. And as an American citizen I am always hearing how bad it is for China to have a leg up on us in X, Y or Z, and yet our government is the one that is regularly saber rattling (and starting wars over!) the shifting economic realities of the US clearly being an empire in decline. These days we also regularly saber rattle our own "allies" for fuck's sake. Long past time to ask yourself if maybe we're the baddies.
- llm_nerd 2mo ago
  The US is a tiny part of the world, however self-absorbed and exceptional it imagines itself. And everyone else is going to continue buying the best options while the US drives it lifted rolls-coal pickups and tells about the olden days.
  - gyanchawdhary 2mo ago
    wrong.
    - deleted 2mo ago
      [deleted]
- tzs 2mo ago
  Maybe if half of the US government wasn't trying to discourage solar power, wind power, and EVs there might be more interest in making them domestically.
option 2mo ago
That seems to be the whole point of USA these days

That, or to avoid surrendering yet another technology relevant to the future to China. As if them manufacturing the bulk of world's solar panels, wind turbines and heading for EVs isn't bad enough.

05 2mo ago
US companies don't even sell consumer drones, so are they going to stay competitive by forcing consumers to buy $4000 enterprise models for their kids to play with?
- ACCount37 2mo ago
  Hobbyist drones also don't ship with lidar in stock. The concern isn't China dominating the area of $20 toys. The concern is platforms relevant to industry and military. Whether that, in turn, can be disentangled from "the area of $20 toys" in case of drones is unclear to me.
  - 0x457 2mo ago
    That is false. DJI Air 3S, Mini 5 Pro, Mavic 4 Pro, and even the Neo 2 are consumer drones that ship with forward-facing LiDAR for obstacle avoidance. FCC proposal doesn’t distinguish that safety sensor from mapping-grade or military LiDAR - it covers any drone that “contains or integrates” LiDAR. If Air and Mini ain't hobbyist grade idk what is.
  - 05 2mo ago
    > Hobbyist drones also don't ship with lidar in stock. Is Neo a $20 toy? LIDARs are getting cheap quick, at some point when ToF sensors add $10 to BoM they will be in all drones.. I guess except US only SKUs? Not like you can't get pretty much the same data using just a single camera, GPS+IMU fusion and structure-from-motion..
  - Danox 2mo ago
    That ship has sailed all of the countries that can get into space know every square inch of every piece of territory in every country of the world, there isn’t any place to hide, the local American drone makers in America for example don’t want to make civilian drones. They want guaranteed contracts from the American government selling high priced military equipment civilians be damned.
PunchyHamster 2mo ago
That isn't stopping them from developing LIDAR in any way Moreover they also have 2 market leaders in that techs
anigbrowl 2mo ago
I mean, the rest of the world still exists and is generally happy to buy reasonably priced Chinese tech. American isolationists get rather carried away by geography to the point of assuming the rest of world is in a state of cinematic collapse with a few super enemies stalking the ruins. Trump's comments the other day suggesting he's capable of destroying the Swiss economy overnight demonstrate a sort of socioeconomic myopia predicated on the idea that the US is the only consumer market that matters.
t-writescode 2mo ago
If we cared enough to be effective, we would be subsidizing / encouraging local manufacture of all of those at a competitive, non-luxury price.
- dgellow 2mo ago
  That would need to start with building the manufacturing infrastructure. But that requires to work on long term goals, something the west hasn’t been doing that well over the last 30+ years
  - bigbadfeline 2mo ago
    Market bubbles make way more money than making things. That's why making things gets no money, only bans.
  - t-writescode 2mo ago
    No argument here.
dgellow 2mo ago
China has been leading in drones since a very long time. It’s not something they took from the US
- Joel_Mckay 2mo ago
  Sure, China started manufacturing the $8 motors at a steep discount which drove amateur $27.50 competition out of business, than initially sold $60 LiPol batteries for $7 to starve other manufacturers out of business for years. Finally, purchased rare earth mines across the planet to secure their economic position long into the future. China party policy was successful, and just a bit better at state-backed monopolistic control of supply & demand than many folks including the US. Gaslighting policy losers of outsourcing by insisting it never happened just angers people. That is how it happened, and most open-hardware community projects are still sold on China websites within a few weeks. It is just a cultural opinion on IP ownership that differs. =3
  - Danox 2mo ago
    The upper class management shipped everything overseas, and still claim they can’t do anything on shore in America. If they can’t send it to China they’ll send it to Vietnam, India or Indonesia the excuses will never end.
    - Joel_Mckay 2mo ago
      Not if the magnets cost more than the retail price of the product. China policy was made by teams of Engineers within The Party, and operate very differently than disconnected US trust-fund kids. =3
  - nl 2mo ago
    > $8 motors at a steep discount What does this even mean? There are tens (hundreds?) of cheap electric motor manufactures in China. You can go and order some custom motor yourself and get a quote, and yes you get a discount if you order more. That is what free enterprise is! It seems odd that China seems to need to teach (presumably) US people this? > than initially sold $60 LiPol batteries for $7 to starve other manufacturers out of business for years You make it sounds like this was somehow strange or dodgy or something. Yes, other manufactures couldn't produce them as cheaply. There was no magic Chinese government subsidy or something outside the normal tax reductions the local governments give for setting up factories in their district (the same as in the US!)
deleted 2mo ago
[deleted]
georgemcbay 2mo ago
Stopping US import of any of these technologies doesn't suddenly make them disappear. They still exist. You can't "ignore them and they'll go away", this is real life. And as an American citizen I am always hearing how bad it is for China to have a leg up on us in X, Y or Z, and yet our government is the one that is regularly saber rattling (and starting wars over!) the shifting economic realities of the US clearly being an empire in decline. These days we also regularly saber rattle our own "allies" for fuck's sake. Long past time to ask yourself if maybe we're the baddies.
llm_nerd 2mo ago
The US is a tiny part of the world, however self-absorbed and exceptional it imagines itself. And everyone else is going to continue buying the best options while the US drives it lifted rolls-coal pickups and tells about the olden days.
- gyanchawdhary 2mo ago
  wrong.
  - deleted 2mo ago
    [deleted]
tzs 2mo ago
Maybe if half of the US government wasn't trying to discourage solar power, wind power, and EVs there might be more interest in making them domestically.

option 2mo ago

That seems to be the whole point of USA these days