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I’ve been thinking about this a lot, and waiting to read an example. This might just be the first I’ve read. > “…by adhering to local zoning rules set 45 years

I’ve been thinking about this a lot, and waiting to read an example. This might just be the first I’ve read. > “…by adhering to local zoning rules set 45 years ago” I live on Long Island NY. Here on LI and Upstate there are a surprising number of former industrial land and abandoned buildings. It’s the whole package—loss of jobs, years of post-industrial decline, lost revenue and old rules on the books. Ripe for a new industry which, like remote workers, doesn’t need to be located next to the larger communities where their work product is consumed. Gentrification or redevelopment of agricultural land into boiling data centers are the outcomes. > “It didn’t bother them that a food-distribution center came to Gilroy …” Bozzo said. It’s a dirty fight. All sides. Amazon wants to build on cheap land, and not on parcels the cities want cleaned up. I’m wondering why these data centers are such a nuisance. We’ve had data centers for years. Is it just the fast growth and number? And is there good public data on their sustainability regarding water and electricity and environmental impact? If cities have failed, it’s turning a blind eye from collecting this data.

unethical_ban 2mo ago
Why people oppose datacenters: Philosophical opposition to AI's impact on society. Resource utilization: power and water. Pollution: natural gas turbines on site and broadly the pollution of power generation, and noise pollution. Subsidies to multitrillion dollar companies at the expense of taxpayers. Impact on local community: traffic, construction, impact to surrounding home prices. Lies about the benefits of datacenters: talk of how much money it might bring governments, while no dividends are paid to citizens impacted by the negative effects above. --- If a datacenter was quiet, powered by renewables, water-efficient in a place without water supply insecurity, and funded by the builders instead of taxpayers, most complaints would be solved. These operators are in such a rush to build that they are ignoring all decency and resident concern in many cases.
- dlubarov 2mo ago
  > Philosophical opposition to AI's impact on society. I think this is the real reason, while the others don't make that much sense when we really think about it. Large datacenters are normally limited to industrial zoned land, so they're "competing" for space with other industrial projects, and their externalities are typically mild compared to other industrial projects. Most datacenters create little traffic, minimal pollution, and no bad odors. They do use substantial power and water, but they pay for it (though in certain cases the economics aren't perfect). I'd much rather live near a datacenter than a dump, sewage facility, refinery, etc. etc.
- gruez 2mo ago
  >Subsidies to multitrillion dollar companies at the expense of taxpayers. How does this square with the fact that one county in Virginia derives half of its budget from datacenters?
  - xtiansimon 2mo ago
    Half of a dollar is fifty-cents. A lot of work is necessary to put that figure into the framing of the benefits of data centers for communities.
    - gruez 2mo ago
      "subsidies" implies the number is negative. Now it sounds like you're moving the goalposts from "datacenters are getting subsidized" to something vague like "they're not paying enough".
  - unethical_ban 2mo ago
    Well, if it happened in one place, it must be happening everywhere.
- xtiansimon 2mo ago
  > “These operators are in such a rush to build…” And take advantage of old laws never written to address the industry.
tzs 2mo ago
> I’m wondering why these data centers are such a nuisance. We’ve had data centers for years. Is it just the fast growth and number? That's likely a big part of it. AI data centers need an order of magnitude or more power than a cloud data center, and a lot more are being built. Before with the lower power requirements and with slow and steady growth a data center project was handled by the utilities just like they handled a new factory or a new large shopping mall. The utility might need to add substation of some local transmission lines but it wasn't a big deal. An AI data center uses so much more power that even if the utility has enough capacity overall to cover it, the AI data center needs that all at one site meaning quit a bit more new infrastructure needs to be built. Now add in the number being built. The utility now is much less likely to have generation capacity to cover them, meaning the utility will have to buy electricity on the open market which is more expensive. Another factor is that many AI data centers cannot wait for that and so find sources of energy other than the grid to tide them over for the several years it might take before the grid is ready for them. These sources are often not good for their neighbors.

unethical_ban 2mo ago

Why people oppose datacenters: Philosophical opposition to AI's impact on society. Resource utilization: power and water. Pollution: natural gas turbines on site and broadly the pollution of power generation, and noise pollution. Subsidies to multitrillion dollar companies at the expense of taxpayers. Impact on local community: traffic, construction, impact to surrounding home prices. Lies about the benefits of datacenters: talk of how much money it might bring governments, while no dividends are paid to citizens impacted by the negative effects above. --- If a datacenter was quiet, powered by renewables, water-efficient in a place without water supply insecurity, and funded by the builders instead of taxpayers, most complaints would be solved. These operators are in such a rush to build that they are ignoring all decency and resident concern in many cases.

dlubarov 2mo ago
> Philosophical opposition to AI's impact on society. I think this is the real reason, while the others don't make that much sense when we really think about it. Large datacenters are normally limited to industrial zoned land, so they're "competing" for space with other industrial projects, and their externalities are typically mild compared to other industrial projects. Most datacenters create little traffic, minimal pollution, and no bad odors. They do use substantial power and water, but they pay for it (though in certain cases the economics aren't perfect). I'd much rather live near a datacenter than a dump, sewage facility, refinery, etc. etc.
gruez 2mo ago
>Subsidies to multitrillion dollar companies at the expense of taxpayers. How does this square with the fact that one county in Virginia derives half of its budget from datacenters?
- xtiansimon 2mo ago
  Half of a dollar is fifty-cents. A lot of work is necessary to put that figure into the framing of the benefits of data centers for communities.
  - gruez 2mo ago
    "subsidies" implies the number is negative. Now it sounds like you're moving the goalposts from "datacenters are getting subsidized" to something vague like "they're not paying enough".
- unethical_ban 2mo ago
  Well, if it happened in one place, it must be happening everywhere.
xtiansimon 2mo ago
> “These operators are in such a rush to build…” And take advantage of old laws never written to address the industry.

tzs 2mo ago

> I’m wondering why these data centers are such a nuisance. We’ve had data centers for years. Is it just the fast growth and number? That's likely a big part of it. AI data centers need an order of magnitude or more power than a cloud data center, and a lot more are being built. Before with the lower power requirements and with slow and steady growth a data center project was handled by the utilities just like they handled a new factory or a new large shopping mall. The utility might need to add substation of some local transmission lines but it wasn't a big deal. An AI data center uses so much more power that even if the utility has enough capacity overall to cover it, the AI data center needs that all at one site meaning quit a bit more new infrastructure needs to be built. Now add in the number being built. The utility now is much less likely to have generation capacity to cover them, meaning the utility will have to buy electricity on the open market which is more expensive. Another factor is that many AI data centers cannot wait for that and so find sources of energy other than the grid to tide them over for the several years it might take before the grid is ready for them. These sources are often not good for their neighbors.