3 ms·

It's hard for me to take this perspective seriously when you describe a cellphone as "entirely optional". Our society is structured around the assumption that y

by tdeck 2mo ago

It's hard for me to take this perspective seriously when you describe a cellphone as "entirely optional". Our society is structured around the assumption that you'll have not just a cellphone, but a smartphone. Without acknowledging that, how can we have a realistic discussion? Many businesses require you to use a smartphone in some way. Some government services also require one. Before cellphones, there were payphones everywhere for people to use when they needed to get into contact. Now there are hardly any left in most countries, so your ability to communicate would actually be worse than in the pre-cellphone era. Sure you could ask someone to use their phone, but if a stranger asked me that these days I would likely refuse.

zhoBEENG 2mo ago
I do not carry a cellphone. I am employed and live in a major city. I never think about not having one. I know multiple other people, also employed, living both rurally and in cities, who do not carry cellphones. It is entirely optional.
- sd9 2mo ago
  Counterpoint: I could not do my job without one. Clients expect support over WhatsApp.
  - zhoBEENG 2mo ago
    For sure, but you still do retain the option to leave it at work, unless you have some kind of 24/7 sales job. I do think privacy at work is not an option for most people.
  - esseph 2mo ago
    > Clients expect support over WhatsApp Seems very country / region specific?
- anonzzzies 2mo ago
  Less and less though and you need to go through quite a bit of trouble sometimes already. Banking, gov apps, I know more and more companies you cannot enter nor clock in without smartphone etc. Sure, you can just resign, move country, try to find another bank; in the end you will run out of options as they are all moving there.
- tdeck 2mo ago
  > I am employed and live in a major city. ... . I know multiple other people, also employed, living both rurally and in cities, who do not carry cellphones. This doesn't mean much. I know multiple people who fit this description, live in the US, and can't speak or read English. However, speaking English isn't meaningfully optional. You will face constant limitations and problems in every aspect of life. There are people who don't use electricity, so I guess by your definition that's optional too? > I never think about not having one. Sure you don't.
  - zhoBEENG 2mo ago
    Genuinely. Thinking back on it now, the only times I notice it is in some restaurants that don’t have paper menus out by default. I need to ask for one, which feels very odd and kind of awkward. This is the only instance I can think of.
    - tdeck 2mo ago
      What happens when you're meeting up with someone? With the folks I know who don't have a phone, this is always a real pain point because they don't have a way to communicate or receive changes of plans, "I'm going to be late", etc...
      - zhoBEENG 2mo ago
        We agree on when to meet and where, and then we both actually show up. The whole last-minute plan changing thing is a pretty recent phenomenon, I believe.
        nec4b 2mo ago
        Do you never have problems with transportation like breakdowns or accidents stopping the traffic for a while or having some sort of emergency where you need to drop everything an take care of it?
        2mo ago
- jrmg 2mo ago
  So many stores and (all?) banks require two-factor login now, where an SMS sent to a phone is the second factor. How do you cope with this?
  - zhoBEENG 2mo ago
    I do not carry a cellphone, but I own an old one with no data plan that remains off and in a drawer except for when used for things like this. I am not sure I have run into any stores that require 2 factor. Mostly just official stuff like banks.
    - doctorwho42 2mo ago
      My work has multiple systems that require 2fa on a regular basis. It's actually quite annoying, and the alternative options to 2fa don't work for every system.
      - XorNot 2mo ago
        The glorious day in the future when Oauth is confined to the dust bin of history and logging in to anything doesn't require a web browser redirecting 10 times.
      - JacobKfromIRC 2mo ago
        Oof, this is a problem at my workplace. Crew [1] and Connecteam [2] (workplace communication apps) both require an SMS code to sign in. Technically, you don't have to have a cell phone, because you can use a VoIP service, but it means that someone who does have a cell phone has to replace it with a VoIP service instead of just getting rid of it. [1] https://crewapp.com/ https://crewapp.com/ [2] https://connecteam.com/ https://connecteam.com/
  - JacobKfromIRC 2mo ago
    Not all banks require SMS. I use Chase bank and the two factors are my debit card and my PIN. I don't use any app, but instead just go to the ATM or talk to a human. Some things, like wiring money, have an extra charge if you don't use the app. A major downside of this is that if someone did figure out how to withdraw a bunch of my money from my account, I wouldn't notice until I go to the bank, which I only do once per month or so. I wish my bank had an option to send me an email on every transaction, but as is I have to go to the ATM and request an email with the recent transaction info. Partially as a result of this limitation, and partially because I enjoy playing the "Where's George?" game (which involves using cash), I pay for everything with cash and only use my debit card for withdrawing cash. I've heard that it's possible to get an ATM-only card for this purpose, so I will probably do that eventually, so that if someone gets my card information they will not be able to make online transactions.
Bender 2mo ago
The only reason I take my cell phone with me is in the event my truck breaks down. I have lost count of how many times I forgot it at home. I've had business tell me to install some app but I just tell them no or make them do the work for me. If they want money they will fill in the information. Over the years I have been parting ways from businesses that I can not walk in and talk face-to-face with someone and for good reason as it is getting harder and harder to reach a real person in customer support for online businesses. People are getting accounts disabled or deleted with no recourse.
- MSFT_Edging 2mo ago
  A few years ago I bought a couch at Ikea, I wanted to get it delivered. They held out a QR code to a task rabbit link, after fighting with the code and bad reception and not wanting to make an account, they gave me the backup delivery method which was a day later but a whole lot cheaper and likely an actually insured delivery company. The look of confusion on people's face when I don't want to scan a random code or install an app. It's my phone damnit, my phone shouldn't need software so you can sell me things.
forgetfreeman 2mo ago
"Our society is structured around the assumption that you'll have not just a cellphone, but a smartphone." Except it really isn't, it just seems that way when you spend a bunch of time on your phone. As part of an utterly graceless transition to middle age I bailed on social media and have aggressively refused to engage with service-related apps of any kind (fuck mychart, drive-thru mobile apps, and the horse they rode in on). To the extent that I use my phone at all these days it's to check text messages, field calls, and (rarely) navigate via maps. I've reverted to the Old Ways (mailing paper checks, calling ahead to get live humans to explain shit, etc) and it's been pretty frictionless. I've yet to encounter a situation where I was prevented from doing anything because I didn't phone.
- SoftTalker 2mo ago
  > mailing paper checks Actually compared to signing in to a website, 2FA, dismissing the popups to explore new features, entering payment info, then confirming---writing a check and putting it in an envelope takes less time.
  - forgetfreeman 2mo ago
    Depends on how long it takes me to find my checkbook but yeah pretty much, and it's a lot less irritating.
iamnothere 2mo ago
I don’t carry a cell phone, although I technically own one (it usually stays at home). For a while I had to tell a cashier that I don’t have a phone on occasion, but I’ve noticed that many places seem to be backing off on pushing their apps or requiring a phone for some part of the transaction. I used to carry a legit dumbphone (not one of the new Android/AOSP “dumbphones”) and that worked just as well. It’s even trendy now!

by tdeck 2mo ago

zhoBEENG 2mo ago

I do not carry a cellphone. I am employed and live in a major city. I never think about not having one. I know multiple other people, also employed, living both rurally and in cities, who do not carry cellphones. It is entirely optional.

sd9 2mo ago
Counterpoint: I could not do my job without one. Clients expect support over WhatsApp.
- zhoBEENG 2mo ago
  For sure, but you still do retain the option to leave it at work, unless you have some kind of 24/7 sales job. I do think privacy at work is not an option for most people.
- esseph 2mo ago
  > Clients expect support over WhatsApp Seems very country / region specific?
anonzzzies 2mo ago
Less and less though and you need to go through quite a bit of trouble sometimes already. Banking, gov apps, I know more and more companies you cannot enter nor clock in without smartphone etc. Sure, you can just resign, move country, try to find another bank; in the end you will run out of options as they are all moving there.
tdeck 2mo ago
> I am employed and live in a major city. ... . I know multiple other people, also employed, living both rurally and in cities, who do not carry cellphones. This doesn't mean much. I know multiple people who fit this description, live in the US, and can't speak or read English. However, speaking English isn't meaningfully optional. You will face constant limitations and problems in every aspect of life. There are people who don't use electricity, so I guess by your definition that's optional too? > I never think about not having one. Sure you don't.
- zhoBEENG 2mo ago
  Genuinely. Thinking back on it now, the only times I notice it is in some restaurants that don’t have paper menus out by default. I need to ask for one, which feels very odd and kind of awkward. This is the only instance I can think of.
  - tdeck 2mo ago
    What happens when you're meeting up with someone? With the folks I know who don't have a phone, this is always a real pain point because they don't have a way to communicate or receive changes of plans, "I'm going to be late", etc...
    - zhoBEENG 2mo ago
      We agree on when to meet and where, and then we both actually show up. The whole last-minute plan changing thing is a pretty recent phenomenon, I believe.
      - nec4b 2mo ago
        Do you never have problems with transportation like breakdowns or accidents stopping the traffic for a while or having some sort of emergency where you need to drop everything an take care of it?
        2mo ago
jrmg 2mo ago
So many stores and (all?) banks require two-factor login now, where an SMS sent to a phone is the second factor. How do you cope with this?
- zhoBEENG 2mo ago
  I do not carry a cellphone, but I own an old one with no data plan that remains off and in a drawer except for when used for things like this. I am not sure I have run into any stores that require 2 factor. Mostly just official stuff like banks.
  - doctorwho42 2mo ago
    My work has multiple systems that require 2fa on a regular basis. It's actually quite annoying, and the alternative options to 2fa don't work for every system.
    - XorNot 2mo ago
      The glorious day in the future when Oauth is confined to the dust bin of history and logging in to anything doesn't require a web browser redirecting 10 times.
    - JacobKfromIRC 2mo ago
      Oof, this is a problem at my workplace. Crew [1] and Connecteam [2] (workplace communication apps) both require an SMS code to sign in. Technically, you don't have to have a cell phone, because you can use a VoIP service, but it means that someone who does have a cell phone has to replace it with a VoIP service instead of just getting rid of it. [1] https://crewapp.com/ https://crewapp.com/ [2] https://connecteam.com/ https://connecteam.com/
- JacobKfromIRC 2mo ago
  Not all banks require SMS. I use Chase bank and the two factors are my debit card and my PIN. I don't use any app, but instead just go to the ATM or talk to a human. Some things, like wiring money, have an extra charge if you don't use the app. A major downside of this is that if someone did figure out how to withdraw a bunch of my money from my account, I wouldn't notice until I go to the bank, which I only do once per month or so. I wish my bank had an option to send me an email on every transaction, but as is I have to go to the ATM and request an email with the recent transaction info. Partially as a result of this limitation, and partially because I enjoy playing the "Where's George?" game (which involves using cash), I pay for everything with cash and only use my debit card for withdrawing cash. I've heard that it's possible to get an ATM-only card for this purpose, so I will probably do that eventually, so that if someone gets my card information they will not be able to make online transactions.

Bender 2mo ago

The only reason I take my cell phone with me is in the event my truck breaks down. I have lost count of how many times I forgot it at home. I've had business tell me to install some app but I just tell them no or make them do the work for me. If they want money they will fill in the information. Over the years I have been parting ways from businesses that I can not walk in and talk face-to-face with someone and for good reason as it is getting harder and harder to reach a real person in customer support for online businesses. People are getting accounts disabled or deleted with no recourse.

MSFT_Edging 2mo ago
A few years ago I bought a couch at Ikea, I wanted to get it delivered. They held out a QR code to a task rabbit link, after fighting with the code and bad reception and not wanting to make an account, they gave me the backup delivery method which was a day later but a whole lot cheaper and likely an actually insured delivery company. The look of confusion on people's face when I don't want to scan a random code or install an app. It's my phone damnit, my phone shouldn't need software so you can sell me things.

forgetfreeman 2mo ago

"Our society is structured around the assumption that you'll have not just a cellphone, but a smartphone." Except it really isn't, it just seems that way when you spend a bunch of time on your phone. As part of an utterly graceless transition to middle age I bailed on social media and have aggressively refused to engage with service-related apps of any kind (fuck mychart, drive-thru mobile apps, and the horse they rode in on). To the extent that I use my phone at all these days it's to check text messages, field calls, and (rarely) navigate via maps. I've reverted to the Old Ways (mailing paper checks, calling ahead to get live humans to explain shit, etc) and it's been pretty frictionless. I've yet to encounter a situation where I was prevented from doing anything because I didn't phone.

SoftTalker 2mo ago
> mailing paper checks Actually compared to signing in to a website, 2FA, dismissing the popups to explore new features, entering payment info, then confirming---writing a check and putting it in an envelope takes less time.
- forgetfreeman 2mo ago
  Depends on how long it takes me to find my checkbook but yeah pretty much, and it's a lot less irritating.

iamnothere 2mo ago

I don’t carry a cell phone, although I technically own one (it usually stays at home). For a while I had to tell a cashier that I don’t have a phone on occasion, but I’ve noticed that many places seem to be backing off on pushing their apps or requiring a phone for some part of the transaction. I used to carry a legit dumbphone (not one of the new Android/AOSP “dumbphones”) and that worked just as well. It’s even trendy now!