4 ms·

The exchange of labor for money will never outpace its own absurdity to become a natural law. We literally live in that world

smallerize 2mo ago
What does this mean
spicyusername 2mo ago
The real natural law is scarcity. We will always need a system to decide who gets to live by the ocean better than the default one, violence.
- stymaar 2mo ago
  > The real natural law is scarcity. That's the biggest myth of economics. It wasn't even true the pre-modern world except occasionally (famines were a real thing, but they were still kinda infrequent), and it's pretty much never true in an industrial civilization, let alone in an era of growing automation capabilities.
  - voakbasda 2mo ago
    Yeah, most modern scarcity is artificially induced by producers, who will limit their supply to ensure their margins stay healthy. However, land is one case where they aren’t making more of it. So, you are both right?
  - spicyusername 2mo ago
    scarcity myth wasn't true in pre-modern Got bad news for you bub...
    - stymaar 2mo ago
      That I spend too much time reading history books? I know, but old habits die hard.
  - brainwad 2mo ago
    If resources are not scarce in industrial civilisation, why do you suppose people pay for them? Why is there a spot oil market, if oil is not scarce? And the same for all other commodities...
    - stymaar 2mo ago
      > If resources are not scarce in industrial civilisation, why do you suppose people pay for them? Like most people I used to pay for a Windows license key, do you think that I had to pay for it because license keys are scarce? > Why is there a spot oil market, if oil is not scarce? Because we designed the oil market this way. In Europe, we didn't have a spot electricity price decades ago, but we have now. Oil is typically a good example as the Saudi could pump twice as much oil whenever they like (and still have oil when we phase out oil consumption as we move to EV). Resources are obviously finite, but most of them can't be called scarce because the natural limits aren't the limiting factor for how much there are of them in the market.
      - brainwad 2mo ago
        I wouldn't normally call a license key a resource. But to the extent I entertain the hypothetical: illegal windows unlocks aren't scarce, only the legal keys are, because the scarcity is purely legal. People pay for the legal keys to stay on the right side of the law. > Oil is typically a good example as the Saudi could pump twice as much oil whenever they like (and still have oil when we phase out oil consumption as we move to EV). A brave take when Saudi production is currently massively curtailed due to events out of their control. Sure _pumping_ is cheap, but that's only helpful if you want to consume the oil at the well head. Otherwise the true scarcity is in the whole supply chain. Resources are scarce because even if the reserves exist, extracting and distributing them is hard.
        stymaar 2mo ago
        The key point is that scarcity isn't where price comes from. Price always comes from the fact that the producer seeks to recoup their upfront costs. If additional demand is there at the same price, suppliers of pretty much any good can always increase their output. When output is driven by demand instead of natural limits it's by definition the very opposite of scarcity.

smallerize 2mo ago

What does this mean

spicyusername 2mo ago

The real natural law is scarcity. We will always need a system to decide who gets to live by the ocean better than the default one, violence.

stymaar 2mo ago
> The real natural law is scarcity. That's the biggest myth of economics. It wasn't even true the pre-modern world except occasionally (famines were a real thing, but they were still kinda infrequent), and it's pretty much never true in an industrial civilization, let alone in an era of growing automation capabilities.
- voakbasda 2mo ago
  Yeah, most modern scarcity is artificially induced by producers, who will limit their supply to ensure their margins stay healthy. However, land is one case where they aren’t making more of it. So, you are both right?
- spicyusername 2mo ago
  scarcity myth wasn't true in pre-modern Got bad news for you bub...
  - stymaar 2mo ago
    That I spend too much time reading history books? I know, but old habits die hard.
- brainwad 2mo ago
  If resources are not scarce in industrial civilisation, why do you suppose people pay for them? Why is there a spot oil market, if oil is not scarce? And the same for all other commodities...
  - stymaar 2mo ago
    > If resources are not scarce in industrial civilisation, why do you suppose people pay for them? Like most people I used to pay for a Windows license key, do you think that I had to pay for it because license keys are scarce? > Why is there a spot oil market, if oil is not scarce? Because we designed the oil market this way. In Europe, we didn't have a spot electricity price decades ago, but we have now. Oil is typically a good example as the Saudi could pump twice as much oil whenever they like (and still have oil when we phase out oil consumption as we move to EV). Resources are obviously finite, but most of them can't be called scarce because the natural limits aren't the limiting factor for how much there are of them in the market.
    - brainwad 2mo ago
      I wouldn't normally call a license key a resource. But to the extent I entertain the hypothetical: illegal windows unlocks aren't scarce, only the legal keys are, because the scarcity is purely legal. People pay for the legal keys to stay on the right side of the law. > Oil is typically a good example as the Saudi could pump twice as much oil whenever they like (and still have oil when we phase out oil consumption as we move to EV). A brave take when Saudi production is currently massively curtailed due to events out of their control. Sure _pumping_ is cheap, but that's only helpful if you want to consume the oil at the well head. Otherwise the true scarcity is in the whole supply chain. Resources are scarce because even if the reserves exist, extracting and distributing them is hard.
      - stymaar 2mo ago
        The key point is that scarcity isn't where price comes from. Price always comes from the fact that the producer seeks to recoup their upfront costs. If additional demand is there at the same price, suppliers of pretty much any good can always increase their output. When output is driven by demand instead of natural limits it's by definition the very opposite of scarcity.