4 ms·
I read a while back that our brains produce roughly 0.3 mg of melatonin when signaling us to go to sleep. When I occasionally do use melatonin I split a 1mg pil
by koliber 2mo ago
I read a while back that our brains produce roughly 0.3 mg of melatonin when signaling us to go to sleep. When I occasionally do use melatonin I split a 1mg pill into half or thirds. I find that it works well enough to help me fall asleep. Wondering how the study would look if hwy used 1/2 mg doses.
- mettamage 2mo agoGo to the Netherlands, to the Kruidvat (or Etos or something similar) and just buy a lifetime worth of supply of Melatonin. It's 0.1 mg. I'm Dutch and live here. But my wife is American. If I ever happen to live in the US (chances are there in my lifetime). I'm going to employ this strategy. I don't trust the US with this and the Netherlands has proven itself to me in this sense. There are probably many more European countries that do this well. I'm simply not changing a winning team. But I'd love to hear from other people that believe they found a good melatonin supply in a country. I'm curious.
- budsniffer952 2mo ago[flagged]
- rusk 2mo agoPharma and Healthcare was the implication I believe. The US approach to these things has a bad reputation internationally though I am informed that it’s an amazing system if you’re rich.
- mft_ 2mo agoLet’s not conflate US pharma with their healthcare more generally. The US is dominant in pharmaceutical and biotech, and FDA is generally excellent as a regulator, despite (IMO) sometimes being too conservative and resistant to any ideas not gestated within the agency. There are weird quirks (like the wide and wacky dosages of melatonin available over the counter, in this example) but most countries have such quirks.
- Angostura 2mo agoAs I understand it, the FDA doesn't regulate melatonin as it's not sold as a medication, but as a supplement.
- mft_ 2mo agoFDA does regulate supplements, but using a different legal framework which is far, far more hands-off than for pharmaceuticals.
- Spooky23 2mo agoIrrelevant due to a scoping problem. If you’re peddling a dietary supplement there is virtually no regulation at all. As long as you don’t say anything in the marketing material, you’re good. The only science in supplements is the marketing.
- mlrtime 2mo agoAre you implying that everyone in the US is taking unknown quantities of OTC medications? Unless you have some data to backup this claim, it is tinfoil hat speaking.
- mettamage 2mo agoUS melatonin measured dosage can be 4x as much as what is reported [1, 2]. Have you never looked into stuff like this? It's all over social media and the claims are relatively easy to verify. I'm asking because I need to know if I'm in a bubble or not. [1] Cohen PA, Avula B, Wang YH, Katragunta K, Khan I. Quantity of Melatonin and CBD in Melatonin Gummies Sold in the US. JAMA. 2023;329(16):1401–1402. doi:10.1001/jama.2023.2296 https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10130950/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10130950/ [2] Erland LAE, Saxena PK. Melatonin Natural Health Products and Supplements: Presence of Serotonin and Significant Variability of Melatonin Content. J Clin Sleep Med. 2017;13(2):275–281. doi:10.5664/jcsm.6462 https://link.springer.com/article/10.5664/jcsm.6462 https://link.springer.com/article/10.5664/jcsm.6462
- amanaplanacanal 2mo agoIn the US its regulated as a supplement, not an over the counter medication.
- canarypilot 2mo ago[dead]
- mettamage 2mo agoSo much for a good faith discussion here. I don't appreciate that you tell me to "get a grip". You're not steelmanning. Instead, your reaction comes off as a knee jerk reaction. There are enough communities where I have to come up with defenses to deal with that nonsense. Don't do it here please. US melatonin measured dosage can be 4x as much as what is reported [1, 2]. Also 0.3 mg is the recommended dose [4]. A lot of doses in the US are way higher than 0.3 mg. In the Netherlands it's stupidly easy to find 0.1 mg doses (e.g. at the Kruidvat or at the Etos). It's in part why I never looked further. And since you're new here (55 days ago, 13 karma as of writing). I strongly recommend you to read the HN guidelines [3]. All people who are on HN should follow them, not knowing them degrades the community experience that we're having here. > Be kind. Don't be snarky. Converse curiously; don't cross-examine. Edit out swipes. > Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive There are a few others that apply as well. [1] Cohen PA, Avula B, Wang YH, Katragunta K, Khan I. Quantity of Melatonin and CBD in Melatonin Gummies Sold in the US. JAMA. 2023;329(16):1401–1402. doi:10.1001/jama.2023.2296 https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10130950/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10130950/ [2] Erland LAE, Saxena PK. Melatonin Natural Health Products and Supplements: Presence of Serotonin and Significant Variability of Melatonin Content. J Clin Sleep Med. 2017;13(2):275–281. doi:10.5664/jcsm.6462 https://link.springer.com/article/10.5664/jcsm.6462 https://link.springer.com/article/10.5664/jcsm.6462 [3] https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html [4] https://gwern.net/melatonin https://gwern.net/melatonin
- _dark_matter_ 2mo ago(referring to melatonin) yeah this is valid. I used to take melatonin every night, found out about the problems with us supply, couldn't find anything nearing 1/2 mg, and gave up. I took kids gummies for a few weeks, but I still think they were 1mg.
- budsniffer952 2mo agoIt's completely invalid. Small dose melatonin is all over Amazon and iHerb.
- koliber 2mo agoI feel that the 1mg pill bottle that I have already is my lifetime supply, given the rate at which I use it.
- mettamage 2mo agoI've been supplementing for almost 2 years. It still works. I unfortunately need a lifetime supply. I almost take it every day. So 0.3 mg * 300 days * 100 years = 9 grams of melatonin. I don't expect to live 100 years but it's handy to have a bit of an oversupply.
- yalok 2mo agoOne can get kids doses that are 0.5 or 0.25mg. Eg see this 0.25 product on Amazon - https://a.co/d/0j74eWFP https://a.co/d/0j74eWFP
- tedggh 2mo agoDrugs are regulated with the same care in the US, the problem is you are comparing a drug in Europe with a dietary supplement in the US. You can’t expect to grab a high quality of any dietary supplement from say Walmart. It’s the same in Europe. In the US there are labs making high quality dietary supplements, but you usually don’t find them at retail stores or even Amazon, so it needs a bit of research.
- hattmall 2mo agoIf they aren't sold in retail stores or Amazon how are they sold? Private websites? Amazon requires random sampling confirmation for supplements from independent labs though, so anything officially listed in a supplement category should be reliable.
- briHass 2mo agoWalmart typically carries a large selection of supplements from the 'Nature Made' brand (yellow label), which tests/certifies most of their products through the independent 'U.S. Pharmacopeia (USP)'. While that may not help with the arguments over the correct dosage, it at least means you can trust the ingredients and dosage on the label isn't a lie. A random mail order supplement or bulk powder seller on Amazon...not so much.
- coldtea 2mo ago>which tests/certifies most of their products through the independent 'U.S. Pharmacopeia (USP)'. Which is some entity who cares, or who would approve plutonium as a school lunch if the factory paid enough?
- kotaKat 2mo agoFortunately, it's the former. It's a 200+ year old nonprofit founded by a group of physicians in 1820 that developed the modern drug standards that most of the world actually relies on. https://www.usp.org/about/usp-convention https://www.usp.org/about/usp-convention I will actually point out an amusing note about Walmart's pharmacy services - you find them in weird places. https://www.delta.com/us/en/careers/corporate-careers https://www.delta.com/us/en/careers/corporate-careers Towards the bottom of the page at Delta's careers page you'll note that Delta's headquarters in Atlanta has a Walmart Pharmacy in it. Delta is essentially signalling to its constantly moving employees that you're more likely to find a Walmart near an airport than a CVS or a Walgreens (especially in super-rural America) and that pharmacy is a constant stream of pilots and flight attendants grabbing refills on their way through.
- jack_pp 2mo agoI used to do this too, but I learned that will give you inconsistent dosage as the pills aren't guaranteed to have the active ingredient spread uniformly.
- inejge 2mo agoIf the pill has a score line, it's designed for halving (or quartering, if it has two.) Otherwise, no guarantees.