3 ms·

Is anyone just overwhelmed by the propaganda and partisanship as you read this? I have no great opinion on this Syrian regime or the previous - like basically e

Is anyone just overwhelmed by the propaganda and partisanship as you read this? I have no great opinion on this Syrian regime or the previous - like basically everyone on HN when it comes to geopolitical topics, I do not know much about it - but the bias in the article is almost comically ham-fisted.

aplummer 2mo ago
These are allegations of war crimes / criminals it’s not bias to describe them accurately.
- SanjayMehta 2mo ago
  Every US president has been a war criminal. Deal with them first. The entire western world is based on crimes against humanity. Punish your own first.
  - aplummer 1mo ago
    Whataboutism? Also I’m not American
PeterHolzwarth 2mo ago
It is distressing to hear someone on hacker news describe this, and the history of Syria over the last couple decades, as something that might be "propaganda" and "partisanship." My god, man - do you even slightly follow the news? Are you really that unaware such that you feel there is some degree of question over just how horrific the Assad regime was for Syrians?
- SanjayMehta 2mo ago
  Why do you care? It's their country, let them mess it up as much as they want. That's the problem with you Westerners, you stole and genocided people around the entire world, and when you were finally thrown out, you come back to pass judgement and impose your own dubious morals on other people.
  - stevenwoo 2mo ago
    Was reading book by Sue Black on forensic anthropology , Written in Bone, and she recalled incident where she was an expert witness for commission in Qatar, she confirmed the veracity of eyewitness and photo evidence of Assad Syrian regime of torture - for Arab instigated investigation. Not just Western values.
    - SanjayMehta 2mo ago
      [flagged]
      - donotredeem38 2mo ago
        [dead]
      - DigiEggz 2mo ago
        Hardships any country faces always affect innocent people. For example, immigrants were affected by the opioid crisis, so how does the flimsy, sad idea of "group karma" hold up here? Sharing uphelpful, embittered opinions like this only spreads pain that wraps back around and bites you, in the end. Treating the suffering of people as a sport or spectator event, by proverbially pointing your finger and laughing, is repulsive and puts you exactly in the same league as the people you detest.
        podocarp 2mo ago
        No, I get their point if you ignore the stuff about karma. It does stoke anger when you say "we know better than you" and try to fix other nations' governments though. This is the same kind of shit where the government says "we know better than you how to live your life", and starts meddling in citizens affairs. Furthermore, let's be real. All such cases of "help" have never had altruistic goals in mind. I have never heard of a nation stepping into the affairs of another and actually "helped" and left with nothing in return. In ancient times it's mostly just an excuse for invasion. More recently, Osama started out as "help" against the Russian invaders. Saddam Hussein being installed and then toppled was also "help". Iran, was also due to "help" against the monarchy. I can't find a single instance where the help actually worked or was even meant to be true help. We cry for democracy but how many South American democratically elected governments have the leader of the free world toppled? Again, since ancient history the "help" part of the action is always just propaganda and an excuse to go forward to take advantage of some current crisis.
- LAC-Tech 2mo ago
  [flagged]
  - duxup 2mo ago
    What were you saying? What about that story is propaganda?
    - SanjayMehta 1mo ago
      Everything
sulam 2mo ago
You can't "both-sides" atrocities of the sort the Assad regime practiced, which are well-documented. Even if you want to grant an individual associated with Assad the benefit of the doubt, this is the the point of a trial, in international court, the same sorts of trials that were given to Hitler's associates post WW2.
- shdwslrkr 2mo ago
  [dead]
EA-3167 2mo ago
If you don't know much about it then why are you making accusations about what is and isn't true?
- LAC-Tech 2mo ago
  I know as much about it as every geopolitics expert who's responded to me - in that I have seen news stories. What of it? Do you take every news story you read at face value? I don't. Hence - no opinion; unlike all the experts on modern Syrian history we have here who have no doubt great amounts of knowledge on the civil war, finer points of ideologies, accurate death counts from third party sources, et. Also, do you know how to read? I said it was propaganda and laughably biased. Weasel words. Can you not see them? Never accused them of fabricating anything.
  - EA-3167 2mo ago
    So because you deem others to be speaking in ignorance, you decided to follow their example, but with a contrary position? What a waste of everyone's time.
    - LAC-Tech 2mo ago
      I didn't take a contrary position. I admitted my ignorance, and took a neutral position. Propaganda is propaganda. I've even seen propaganda I agree with.
      - EA-3167 2mo ago
        It's interesting how every single person replying to you here has the same impression of what you're saying, except of course for the other person saying the same thing as you, but louder. I'm not going to suggest anything by that, other than the fact that if your communication style is so readily misunderstood, and the topic involves a regime who's mass graves are literally still being disinterred, why do you feel such a strong need to wade in and announce your... ignorance? Your susceptibility to propaganda? It's a strange choice at best.
SanjayMehta 2mo ago
[flagged]
shdwslrkr 2mo ago
[dead]
yieldcrv 2mo ago
I’m actually not overwhelmed or see it as partisan > There are widespread calls across Syrian society on social media for former senior officials to be held accountable > Syria's Attorney General, Hassan al-Turba, told the BBC the government had launched a lawsuit against Luka, accusing him of "premeditated murder, torture, and death resulting from torture". Syrian administration is using the court system and these aren’t leanings of BBC I understand your general sentiment regarding being involved in other countries, I just don’t think it applies here Regarding the term “partisan”, Syria is under a single party system, for now… ostensibly. They have grievances with the prior regime and are seeking information which is now irrelevant and has no possibility of being restored. I don't think it is possible for that to be considered partisan
- LAC-Tech 2mo ago
  Partisan in the sense of - there is a clear bias for the new regime, and against the old one. Not the literal sense. Note the weasel words from the first few paragraphs: - "dictator" - "henchmen" - "conducted from the shadows" - "regime" - "brutal crushing" - "pro-democracy uprising" - "rebels" One paragraph is almost entirely weasel words: "But his most egregious action in the city, many argue, was his alleged involvement in the so-called Eid Massacre, known by some as the Children's Massacre, which the US noted when sanctioning him."
  - yieldcrv 2mo ago
    Okay, sure, maybe I’m blind to it, what is the other perspective in favor of the old regime I don’t see the new one as being exalted, just present and on a fact finding mission.
    - LAC-Tech 2mo ago
      I don't know. I would have to compare the regimes side by side. But I am so incredibly skeptical about western interference in the middle east (and I say this as a proud westerner). Gadaffi was overthrown and the end result was too civil wars and open air slave markets. Syria is a different country of course, but my meta point is just because a new government is supported by the west does not mean it's better, as a general rule.

aplummer 2mo ago

These are allegations of war crimes / criminals it’s not bias to describe them accurately.

SanjayMehta 2mo ago
Every US president has been a war criminal. Deal with them first. The entire western world is based on crimes against humanity. Punish your own first.
- aplummer 1mo ago
  Whataboutism? Also I’m not American

PeterHolzwarth 2mo ago

It is distressing to hear someone on hacker news describe this, and the history of Syria over the last couple decades, as something that might be "propaganda" and "partisanship." My god, man - do you even slightly follow the news? Are you really that unaware such that you feel there is some degree of question over just how horrific the Assad regime was for Syrians?

SanjayMehta 2mo ago
Why do you care? It's their country, let them mess it up as much as they want. That's the problem with you Westerners, you stole and genocided people around the entire world, and when you were finally thrown out, you come back to pass judgement and impose your own dubious morals on other people.
- stevenwoo 2mo ago
  Was reading book by Sue Black on forensic anthropology , Written in Bone, and she recalled incident where she was an expert witness for commission in Qatar, she confirmed the veracity of eyewitness and photo evidence of Assad Syrian regime of torture - for Arab instigated investigation. Not just Western values.
  - SanjayMehta 2mo ago
    [flagged]
    - donotredeem38 2mo ago
      [dead]
    - DigiEggz 2mo ago
      Hardships any country faces always affect innocent people. For example, immigrants were affected by the opioid crisis, so how does the flimsy, sad idea of "group karma" hold up here? Sharing uphelpful, embittered opinions like this only spreads pain that wraps back around and bites you, in the end. Treating the suffering of people as a sport or spectator event, by proverbially pointing your finger and laughing, is repulsive and puts you exactly in the same league as the people you detest.
      - podocarp 2mo ago
        No, I get their point if you ignore the stuff about karma. It does stoke anger when you say "we know better than you" and try to fix other nations' governments though. This is the same kind of shit where the government says "we know better than you how to live your life", and starts meddling in citizens affairs. Furthermore, let's be real. All such cases of "help" have never had altruistic goals in mind. I have never heard of a nation stepping into the affairs of another and actually "helped" and left with nothing in return. In ancient times it's mostly just an excuse for invasion. More recently, Osama started out as "help" against the Russian invaders. Saddam Hussein being installed and then toppled was also "help". Iran, was also due to "help" against the monarchy. I can't find a single instance where the help actually worked or was even meant to be true help. We cry for democracy but how many South American democratically elected governments have the leader of the free world toppled? Again, since ancient history the "help" part of the action is always just propaganda and an excuse to go forward to take advantage of some current crisis.
LAC-Tech 2mo ago
[flagged]
- duxup 2mo ago
  What were you saying? What about that story is propaganda?
  - SanjayMehta 1mo ago
    Everything

sulam 2mo ago

You can't "both-sides" atrocities of the sort the Assad regime practiced, which are well-documented. Even if you want to grant an individual associated with Assad the benefit of the doubt, this is the the point of a trial, in international court, the same sorts of trials that were given to Hitler's associates post WW2.

shdwslrkr 2mo ago
[dead]

EA-3167 2mo ago

If you don't know much about it then why are you making accusations about what is and isn't true?

LAC-Tech 2mo ago
I know as much about it as every geopolitics expert who's responded to me - in that I have seen news stories. What of it? Do you take every news story you read at face value? I don't. Hence - no opinion; unlike all the experts on modern Syrian history we have here who have no doubt great amounts of knowledge on the civil war, finer points of ideologies, accurate death counts from third party sources, et. Also, do you know how to read? I said it was propaganda and laughably biased. Weasel words. Can you not see them? Never accused them of fabricating anything.
- EA-3167 2mo ago
  So because you deem others to be speaking in ignorance, you decided to follow their example, but with a contrary position? What a waste of everyone's time.
  - LAC-Tech 2mo ago
    I didn't take a contrary position. I admitted my ignorance, and took a neutral position. Propaganda is propaganda. I've even seen propaganda I agree with.
    - EA-3167 2mo ago
      It's interesting how every single person replying to you here has the same impression of what you're saying, except of course for the other person saying the same thing as you, but louder. I'm not going to suggest anything by that, other than the fact that if your communication style is so readily misunderstood, and the topic involves a regime who's mass graves are literally still being disinterred, why do you feel such a strong need to wade in and announce your... ignorance? Your susceptibility to propaganda? It's a strange choice at best.

SanjayMehta 2mo ago

[flagged]

shdwslrkr 2mo ago

[dead]

yieldcrv 2mo ago

I’m actually not overwhelmed or see it as partisan > There are widespread calls across Syrian society on social media for former senior officials to be held accountable > Syria's Attorney General, Hassan al-Turba, told the BBC the government had launched a lawsuit against Luka, accusing him of "premeditated murder, torture, and death resulting from torture". Syrian administration is using the court system and these aren’t leanings of BBC I understand your general sentiment regarding being involved in other countries, I just don’t think it applies here Regarding the term “partisan”, Syria is under a single party system, for now… ostensibly. They have grievances with the prior regime and are seeking information which is now irrelevant and has no possibility of being restored. I don't think it is possible for that to be considered partisan

LAC-Tech 2mo ago
Partisan in the sense of - there is a clear bias for the new regime, and against the old one. Not the literal sense. Note the weasel words from the first few paragraphs: - "dictator" - "henchmen" - "conducted from the shadows" - "regime" - "brutal crushing" - "pro-democracy uprising" - "rebels" One paragraph is almost entirely weasel words: "But his most egregious action in the city, many argue, was his alleged involvement in the so-called Eid Massacre, known by some as the Children's Massacre, which the US noted when sanctioning him."
- yieldcrv 2mo ago
  Okay, sure, maybe I’m blind to it, what is the other perspective in favor of the old regime I don’t see the new one as being exalted, just present and on a fact finding mission.
  - LAC-Tech 2mo ago
    I don't know. I would have to compare the regimes side by side. But I am so incredibly skeptical about western interference in the middle east (and I say this as a proud westerner). Gadaffi was overthrown and the end result was too civil wars and open air slave markets. Syria is a different country of course, but my meta point is just because a new government is supported by the west does not mean it's better, as a general rule.