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Or you can just use any of the actual European companies (I’m using Tuta). https://european-alternatives.eu/category/email-providers https://european-alternati

by tumdum_ 2mo ago

Or you can just use any of the actual European companies (I’m using Tuta). https://european-alternatives.eu/category/email-providers https://european-alternatives.eu/category/email-providers

dwedge 2mo ago
I started using tuta until I realised they don't support IMAP. Something to do with not guaranteeing encryption (which isn't even enabled by default) but has the convenient effect of locking you into their apps
- gertop 2mo ago
  Tuta is always encrypted I don't know where you got the impression that it was optional or that they could somehow magically make it work over IMAP without a bridge like proton.
  - globular-toast 2mo ago
    PGP works over IMAP.
  - dwedge 2mo ago
    > Tuta does not support the use of third-party email clients or the protocols IMAP/POP3/SMTP as we cannot guarantee end-to-end encryption of your data. So it "breaks end to end encryption" even with smtps and imaps apparently. The few emails I received weren't from tutamail users so presumably came over SMTP. It's confusing to know what they mean because they confuse terms. They say emails are "stored end to end encrypted". They don't pass my smell test
    - tumdum_ 2mo ago
      They offer similar product to a more well known Proton.
    - mr_mitm 2mo ago
      And here I thought using open source client software is the only way I, the user, can guarantee E2EE of my data.
- justinclift 2mo ago
  IMAP can do TLS though (IMAPS). Did they say what's stopping them from using that (and requiring the encryption!)?
  - crossroadsguy 2mo ago
    They didn't need to. When you start denying IAMP to your customer in the name of "encryption" at that point it becomes privacy theatre, instead of privacy, irrespective of how nobly activist their intensions are. It is probably slightly worse than a mail provider assuming they can't trust their users with encrypting their emails when needed.
    - fwn 2mo ago
      > When you start denying IAMP to your customer in the name of "encryption" at that point it becomes privacy theatre, instead of privacy, irrespective of how nobly activist their intensions are. How would the lack of IMAP compromise encryption? Sounds dubious. Lock-in effects are problematic, but separate from encryption or privacy in general. If the concern is actually lock-in, it is worth noting: there is little lock-in in the current Tuta offering. The service allows users to export emails into standard EML files. If you decide to switch providers, simply point your domain to the new provider and import your latest backup.
  - preisschild 2mo ago
    Its probably about end to end encryption. Protonmail doesn't store mailboxes in plaintext, only the client actually decrypts the mailbox. IMAPS only encrypts the conn between mail server and client.
- FireInsight 2mo ago
  https://mailbox.org/ https://mailbox.org/ is great. It's the only provider recommended by privacyguides.org that supports IMAP/SMTP.
nicolas_ 2mo ago
Infomaniak is another one https://www.infomaniak.com/en/ksuite https://www.infomaniak.com/en/ksuite
Avamander 2mo ago
Any providers that don't provide SMTP/IMAP/JMAP are just a boring way of giving away control over your mail and the client software you use. I don't know about Tuta specifically, but Protonmail is practically intentionally hostile against anyone using their own keys. Which is the biggest sign that their marketing and actual intent do not align.

by tumdum_ 2mo ago

Or you can just use any of the actual European companies (I’m using Tuta). https://european-alternatives.eu/category/email-providers https://european-alternatives.eu/category/email-providers

dwedge 2mo ago

I started using tuta until I realised they don't support IMAP. Something to do with not guaranteeing encryption (which isn't even enabled by default) but has the convenient effect of locking you into their apps

gertop 2mo ago
Tuta is always encrypted I don't know where you got the impression that it was optional or that they could somehow magically make it work over IMAP without a bridge like proton.
- globular-toast 2mo ago
  PGP works over IMAP.
- dwedge 2mo ago
  > Tuta does not support the use of third-party email clients or the protocols IMAP/POP3/SMTP as we cannot guarantee end-to-end encryption of your data. So it "breaks end to end encryption" even with smtps and imaps apparently. The few emails I received weren't from tutamail users so presumably came over SMTP. It's confusing to know what they mean because they confuse terms. They say emails are "stored end to end encrypted". They don't pass my smell test
  - tumdum_ 2mo ago
    They offer similar product to a more well known Proton.
  - mr_mitm 2mo ago
    And here I thought using open source client software is the only way I, the user, can guarantee E2EE of my data.
justinclift 2mo ago
IMAP can do TLS though (IMAPS). Did they say what's stopping them from using that (and requiring the encryption!)?
- crossroadsguy 2mo ago
  They didn't need to. When you start denying IAMP to your customer in the name of "encryption" at that point it becomes privacy theatre, instead of privacy, irrespective of how nobly activist their intensions are. It is probably slightly worse than a mail provider assuming they can't trust their users with encrypting their emails when needed.
  - fwn 2mo ago
    > When you start denying IAMP to your customer in the name of "encryption" at that point it becomes privacy theatre, instead of privacy, irrespective of how nobly activist their intensions are. How would the lack of IMAP compromise encryption? Sounds dubious. Lock-in effects are problematic, but separate from encryption or privacy in general. If the concern is actually lock-in, it is worth noting: there is little lock-in in the current Tuta offering. The service allows users to export emails into standard EML files. If you decide to switch providers, simply point your domain to the new provider and import your latest backup.
- preisschild 2mo ago
  Its probably about end to end encryption. Protonmail doesn't store mailboxes in plaintext, only the client actually decrypts the mailbox. IMAPS only encrypts the conn between mail server and client.
FireInsight 2mo ago
https://mailbox.org/ https://mailbox.org/ is great. It's the only provider recommended by privacyguides.org that supports IMAP/SMTP.

nicolas_ 2mo ago

Infomaniak is another one https://www.infomaniak.com/en/ksuite https://www.infomaniak.com/en/ksuite

Avamander 2mo ago

Any providers that don't provide SMTP/IMAP/JMAP are just a boring way of giving away control over your mail and the client software you use. I don't know about Tuta specifically, but Protonmail is practically intentionally hostile against anyone using their own keys. Which is the biggest sign that their marketing and actual intent do not align.