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I say the same thing when people in oppressive regimes are silenced with no recourse because the government has no reason to fear it's own citizens. Sigh. I did
by TallGuyShort 14y ago
I say the same thing when people in oppressive regimes are silenced with no recourse because the government has no reason to fear it's own citizens. Sigh. I did not downvote your post, but frankly I'm angry that you just assume everyone who is pro-2nd amendment just isn't as enlightened as you are.
- untog 14y agofrankly I'm angry that you just assume everyone who is pro-2nd amendment just isn't as enlightened as you are. Where exactly do I make that assumption? You'll notice that I didn't even call for a blanket ban on guns, just that, as a nation, we could actually sit down and have a serious talk about whether people should be able to own weapons like this one for private use: [EDIT: I regret posting the link to the rifle, there's clearly plenty of debate about it that detracts from the main topic of discussion- and we don't know any details for definite.] https://twitter.com/MarlowNYC/status/279655599585775616 https://twitter.com/MarlowNYC/status/279655599585775616
- TallGuyShort 14y agoFair point. I'd also like a serious discussion on whether most government have also lost the right to own them.
- feverishaaron 14y agoThere are many different types of .223 caliber rifles, many of which are bolt-action and don't fall into the "oooh scary looking para-military-like assault rifle category".
- pdeuchler 14y agoStop linking to FUD. It's been well reported that the shooter had two handguns, a Glock and a Sig Sauer. http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/12/14/shooting-reported-at-connecticut-elementary-school/ http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/12/14/shooting-reported-at-co...
- untog 14y agoAP News disagrees: http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_CONNECTICUT_SCHOOL_SHOOTING?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2012-12-14-13-27-48 http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_CONNECTICUT_SCHOOL... "A law enforcement official in Washington said the attacker was a 20-year-old man with ties to the school and that one of the guns was a .223-caliber rifle."
- marknutter 14y ago"He was wearing all black and was carrying two 9mm handguns" - http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/12/14/15907407-26-dead-after-gunman-assaults-connecticut-elementary-school-official-says?lite http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/12/14/15907407-26-dead-...
- lostlogin 14y agoNew reports say that other guns were found - some kid of rifle left in the car r something like that.
- stephengillie 14y agoThe .223 is common. The accessories make that gun look a lot more impressive. And you can't tell a gun's lethality just by looking at it -- the difference between semi-auto and full auto is just a cut-firing-pin apart on some guns, so there's no way to tell from outside the weapon.
- dmm 14y agoWhat's so significant about that rifle? That it's black and scary looking? Here's a semiauto rifle with the same calibre: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/18/Mini14GB.jpg/320px-Mini14GB.jpg http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/18/Min... Would that one be more acceptable because it has a wood stock?
- swalsh 14y agoExactly, if I'm going to get shot (which i'm generally against in principle) I'd hope it was a AR-15 and not an AK for instance. The round will fuck you up, but you might get to wake up in a hospital.
- yummyfajitas 14y agoWe've had that conversation several times, typically in the wake of tragic and isolated events like this one. As a nation, we've decided that we don't want to restrict the rights of hundreds of millions of law abiding citizens merely because a few people misuse those rights. This is why politicians have generally decided not to push for more gun control - it's an election losing issue. Incidentally, I'm confused by the point of that tweet. Here are some other .223 rifles: http://s845.beta.photobucket.com/user/OldColdWarrior2009/media/BushnellscopedSavage223caliberri-1.jpg.html http://s845.beta.photobucket.com/user/OldColdWarrior2009/med... http://media.liveauctiongroup.net/i/9380/10373165_1.jpg?v=8CDAE0267F2A1F0 http://media.liveauctiongroup.net/i/9380/10373165_1.jpg?v=8C... http://molot.biz/product-e/vepr223-super.jpg http://molot.biz/product-e/vepr223-super.jpg For most calibers, you can find guns with many different form factors that accept bullets of that caliber. So what?
- deleted 14y ago[deleted]
- mikenon 14y agoThe AP article says only that it was a .223 rifle. This [1] is also a .223 rifle. [1] http://i.imgur.com/1aCHK.jpg http://i.imgur.com/1aCHK.jpg
- gr3yh47 14y agoThis is a terrible, very sad event. My heart goes out to everyone affected by it. However, the idiocy of the tweet, designed only to spread FUD, the mindless retweets and ignorant comments, really piss me off. A few people have pointed out that .223 is a calibur, or 'shell size', and one of the mindless retweeters said she thinks shell size is gun specific. i mean WTF... such epic ignorance...
- DannoHung 14y agoThe weapons needed to resist a regime are not weapons we allow people to generally have in America at any rate. If we really believed in the 2nd Amendment, people would be allowed to own serious weapons of war but not be allowed to own concealable personal firearms.
- jevinskie 14y agoThe 2nd ammendment is not just about protecting yourself from foreign powers or your own government. You have a natural right to self defense from all threats.
- chill1 14y ago> You have a natural right to self defense from all threats. Foreign and imaginary.
- jevinskie 14y agoI think today's news shows that the non-foreign threats are hardly imaginary (and I would argue much more relevant than foreign threats).
- Spooky23 14y agoFrom a legal POV, that's true in many places. Getting legal access to high-performance rifles similar to military weapons is pretty trivial. Easily concealable weapons like pistols usually are more difficult to get a hold of legally. The legal environment doesn't always translate into reality. I live in a small upstate NY city where we unfortunately have lots of shootings, mostly between poor high school kids. The local drug gangs make "community guns" available in public places like parks. I would never want to own one, but for someone like me to own a handgun for target practice, there's an onerous process. I'd be required to get training, get background checked and go through a permit application process. After that's done, it's up to a county court judge's discretion, and in this county, the answer is usually "No."
- bcoates 14y agoMost wars are still primarily men + logistics + intelligence + rifles, the rest is just details.
- hyperbovine 14y agoOh, that is such a straw man. In America, the country in which I (and presumably you) live, what's the body count on the ol' oppressive regime-vs-AR15 wielding madman debate anyways? I'm thinking it's on the order of 0 to a couple hundred thousand. If everybody in North Korea owned a shotgun, yes, the world would be a better place. I don't understand why that means children should be murdered en masse, or that I should have to dodge bullets in my own neighborhood (yes, really), all so that you can sleep easier at night knowing that the far-off, nebulous specter of the 'oppressive regime' is held safely at bay by your Colt 45.
- jivatmanx 14y agoGreatly in favor of the regime, with civilian casualties of the Iraq War.
- TallGuyShort 14y ago>> I don't understand why that means children should be murdered en masse, or that I should have to dodge bullets in my own neighborhood (yes, really), all so that you can sleep easier at night knowing that the far-off, nebulous specter of the 'oppressive regime' is held safely at bay by your Colt 45. Pardon me, but I grew up in a country where 'oppressive regime' was not far off at all, and where brutal murders happened in my neighborhood all the time. I knew my Dad didn't own a gun and it scared me to death. So how dare you belittle my beliefs in the need for armed civilians. Disagree with them, by all means, but do you really think I'm arguing children should be murdered en masse? What you're proposing is, in my opinion, that same thing as arguing that the government should regulate or perhaps even ban internet access because of all the child pornography. Screw civil liberties, think of the children! edit: Also, I would argue that confiscating laptops at airports will save as many lives as trying to ban guns in the US at this point.
- hyperbovine 14y agoAnd now you live in a country with enough societal and institutional safeguards against oppression that it isn't necessary for the citizenry to own automatic weapons. Congratulations.
- hcarvalhoalves 14y agoFor all the rationale I ever heard about gun rights, the one you gave here might be the worst ever. If the government should fear it's citizens it's f* up already, you might as well have real diplomatic or military intervention, not let people die fighting in the street like happens right now in Syria [1]. The sad truth is, oppressive regimes exist in the first place because more powerful nations benefit from it. My own country lived for 17 years under an oppressive regime backed by the gun bearing, world's freedom and democracy flagship. [1] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKsWGuLzsWk&list=PLC4FDC39F67466711&index=18 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKsWGuLzsWk&list=PLC4FDC3...
- rymith 14y agoYup, because here in Canada, we're a horribly oppressed people, and have no hope of ever gaining true freedom because we don't have guns. Please.