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I'm Polish and your statement is absolutely false. Things were simply different. My family had an absolutely happy life for all the generations that followed W

I'm Polish and your statement is absolutely false. Things were simply different. My family had an absolutely happy life for all the generations that followed WW2.

keiferski 2mo ago
I've lived in Poland for the last decade. I'd say 95% of the population looks back on the USSR era with negative views. Poland probably has the best situation it's been in for hundreds of years. The opinions of 20 year olds that weren't alive during the USSR era do not count.
- epolanski 2mo ago
  Of course, why would I, a Pole from as many generations as I can go back in time, know about it better that an expat? 1. Living in Poland does not mean knowing how Poles think about it 2. > I'd say 95% of the population looks back on the USSR era with negative views This is wrong, opinions about PRL have always been mixed and highly influenced by demographics. [1] And they shifted in time. 2014 was the first time more Poles had a negative opinion on PRL than a positive one, similar polls in 2009 and 2000 had much more people seeing the PRL positively (and better than democratic Poland). [2] 3. The opinions of 20 year olds that weren't alive during the USSR era do not count. True, very true! And ironically this is probably where your wrong ideas come from: talking to your millennial coworkers likely in some tech hub or getting randoms opinions over the internet. Stats show that people that were at least 15 by 1989 have warm or mixed memories about PRL. It's actually younger generations that learn it by history rather than experience to hold negative ones. And this shift is even harsher after 2014 and 2016 as there's less people who lived those times polled and more youth that didn't, let alone the Russo-Ukrainian war pushed more people into harsher stances. Let me tell you how things are: life in Communist Poland was ok, people had jobs, had roofs on their heads, had hobbies, did sports, made friends, love, went on vacations. Lives were normal. Are things better now? They are. But to imagine communist countries as some bleak grey dystopia ala papers please or Orwell's 1984 where people were unhappy is nonsense. Believe it or not people had normal lives, with jobs, roofs on their heads, making friends, love, going on vacations, playing sports, cultivating hobbies, etc. I see this every time the topic of communism in Eastern Europe comes up on socials/internet: people that didn't live the era, nor the country, nor the system, speaking about how the people that lived it feel or think. [1] https://dzieje.pl/aktualnosci/cbos-44-proc-polakow-pozytywnie-46-proc-negatywnie-o-okresie-prl-u https://dzieje.pl/aktualnosci/cbos-44-proc-polakow-pozytywni... [2] https://cbos.pl/SPISKOM.POL/2009/K_093_09.PDF https://cbos.pl/SPISKOM.POL/2009/K_093_09.PDF
  - keiferski 2mo ago
    So many false assumptions about me and my background, and so much false nostalgia. I am Polish-American, I speak Polish, my girlfriend is Polish, so yeah, my opinion is just as valid as yours. I don't have "millennial coworkers" nor do I attend a tech hub. Especially absurd when the ongoing war with Russia. It wouldn't surprise me if Polish opinions of Russia were 99% negative. 2014 was 12 years ago. Poland is an entirely different place now. Perhaps you should update your opinion sometime. No one said it was a warzone dystopia, just that it was a darker time compared to today. The "nostalgia" for those times is basically just nostalgia for the past; American "I miss X" views of the same time period are basically the same, meaning it has more to do with global culture and technological development than some specific thing about the USSR. And of course anyone with the slightest bit of political opinions doesn't miss that era.
    - epolanski 2mo ago
      Nope, having lived here for a decade with a polish girlfriend doesn't make you an expert in polish society. Not having had generations and generations of Polish parents and grandparents and great grandparents to intimately understand their daily lifes over decades and their times removes the entirety of the elements you need to understand the topic. You simply don't have it. The same way you don't have any data (which I posted) to back your first statement. I stated this already, since you might've skipped it: > Stats show that people that were at least 15 by 1989 have warm or mixed memories about PRL. It's actually younger generations that learn it by history rather than experience to hold negative ones. > And this shift is even harsher after 2014 and 2016 as there's less people who lived those times polled, let alone the Russo-Ukrainian war pushed more people into harsher stances. So not sure, how are you disagreeing with me thre. But facts are facts this line of yours is BS: > No one in Latvia, Poland, Czech Republic, etc. looks back on the time with fondness. That no one is false. Older people that lived those times often do. This is a fact shown by all polls you will be able to find online. And also by my anecdotal recollection of virtually every 60+ people I know. So stop spreading falsehood about topics you don't know. And I say it as a child of two Poles that escaped communism, my father hated it and hated the idea he could not be an entrepeneur and buy himself a Mini Morris car. You americans are obsessed by over simplified white vs black, winners vs losers narratives and speaking in absolutes. History is more nuanced.
Arodex 2mo ago
So your family belonged to the nomenklatura, or was completely submissive to the Party... Are you certain your parents weren't informants for the SB?
- Arodex 2mo ago
  Funny to see how far I am downvoted for stating the obvious: if your family was doing well while everybody else was worse under an oppressive regime, they were certainly doing something for the oppressive regime... It would be more obvious if someone was talking about their family living a "happy life" during apartheid or in North Korea.
nec4b 2mo ago
>My family had an absolutely happy life for all the generations that followed WW2. Most likely your family was part of the communist elite. I believe you had a very happy life.
- epolanski 2mo ago
  No, they were not, why would you assume so? Communist party was very unpopular in Poland, even though registering was free and had benefits no more than 2.5% of poles ever signed to it.
  - nec4b 2mo ago
    In my experience those are the people who miss the "good" old times, when everything had order and hierarchy. Wikipedia says the communist party in Poland had 3 million member which is about 10% of the population at the time. If you add the family members and close relatives, the number of people living a privileged life was quite big. Red nobility is known phenomenon in former communist countries. https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_United_Workers%27_Party https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_United_Workers%27_P...
    - epolanski 2mo ago
      You can look and Google for many polls conducted on the topic, 2014 was the first year more Poles had a negative than a positive opinion on the PRL (46 vs 44%) and that's because as time progresses average voter age goes down. People that were at least 15 by 1989 (the last year of communism in Poland) had a warm opinion on it. It's really younger generations that did not live in PRL that hold overwhelmingly negative opinions on it. In any case, I'm not sure why am I arguing with you? I'm Polish and my family lived those eras, so did my friends and their families. Simple fact is: during communism people enjoyed fair lives, there was lots of safety, everybody had a job and a roof on their head and could afford one vacation per year. People made friends, sports, had hobbies and they were younger, so they remember the times as okay. On the other hand, people that did not live them, base their opinions on vibes and their external idea of how it was to live under PRL. Look, nobody is saying that life isn't better now, of course it is. But don't believe it was that bad. It was called "second" world and not "third" for a reason. It was okay. Yet in yanks minds we were living some dystopia were everybody lacked everything and was unhappy and their neighbour was gonna report them for anything.

I'm Polish and your statement is absolutely false. Things were simply different. My family had an absolutely happy life for all the generations that followed WW2.

keiferski 2mo ago

I've lived in Poland for the last decade. I'd say 95% of the population looks back on the USSR era with negative views. Poland probably has the best situation it's been in for hundreds of years. The opinions of 20 year olds that weren't alive during the USSR era do not count.

epolanski 2mo ago
Of course, why would I, a Pole from as many generations as I can go back in time, know about it better that an expat? 1. Living in Poland does not mean knowing how Poles think about it 2. > I'd say 95% of the population looks back on the USSR era with negative views This is wrong, opinions about PRL have always been mixed and highly influenced by demographics. [1] And they shifted in time. 2014 was the first time more Poles had a negative opinion on PRL than a positive one, similar polls in 2009 and 2000 had much more people seeing the PRL positively (and better than democratic Poland). [2] 3. The opinions of 20 year olds that weren't alive during the USSR era do not count. True, very true! And ironically this is probably where your wrong ideas come from: talking to your millennial coworkers likely in some tech hub or getting randoms opinions over the internet. Stats show that people that were at least 15 by 1989 have warm or mixed memories about PRL. It's actually younger generations that learn it by history rather than experience to hold negative ones. And this shift is even harsher after 2014 and 2016 as there's less people who lived those times polled and more youth that didn't, let alone the Russo-Ukrainian war pushed more people into harsher stances. Let me tell you how things are: life in Communist Poland was ok, people had jobs, had roofs on their heads, had hobbies, did sports, made friends, love, went on vacations. Lives were normal. Are things better now? They are. But to imagine communist countries as some bleak grey dystopia ala papers please or Orwell's 1984 where people were unhappy is nonsense. Believe it or not people had normal lives, with jobs, roofs on their heads, making friends, love, going on vacations, playing sports, cultivating hobbies, etc. I see this every time the topic of communism in Eastern Europe comes up on socials/internet: people that didn't live the era, nor the country, nor the system, speaking about how the people that lived it feel or think. [1] https://dzieje.pl/aktualnosci/cbos-44-proc-polakow-pozytywnie-46-proc-negatywnie-o-okresie-prl-u https://dzieje.pl/aktualnosci/cbos-44-proc-polakow-pozytywni... [2] https://cbos.pl/SPISKOM.POL/2009/K_093_09.PDF https://cbos.pl/SPISKOM.POL/2009/K_093_09.PDF
- keiferski 2mo ago
  So many false assumptions about me and my background, and so much false nostalgia. I am Polish-American, I speak Polish, my girlfriend is Polish, so yeah, my opinion is just as valid as yours. I don't have "millennial coworkers" nor do I attend a tech hub. Especially absurd when the ongoing war with Russia. It wouldn't surprise me if Polish opinions of Russia were 99% negative. 2014 was 12 years ago. Poland is an entirely different place now. Perhaps you should update your opinion sometime. No one said it was a warzone dystopia, just that it was a darker time compared to today. The "nostalgia" for those times is basically just nostalgia for the past; American "I miss X" views of the same time period are basically the same, meaning it has more to do with global culture and technological development than some specific thing about the USSR. And of course anyone with the slightest bit of political opinions doesn't miss that era.
  - epolanski 2mo ago
    Nope, having lived here for a decade with a polish girlfriend doesn't make you an expert in polish society. Not having had generations and generations of Polish parents and grandparents and great grandparents to intimately understand their daily lifes over decades and their times removes the entirety of the elements you need to understand the topic. You simply don't have it. The same way you don't have any data (which I posted) to back your first statement. I stated this already, since you might've skipped it: > Stats show that people that were at least 15 by 1989 have warm or mixed memories about PRL. It's actually younger generations that learn it by history rather than experience to hold negative ones. > And this shift is even harsher after 2014 and 2016 as there's less people who lived those times polled, let alone the Russo-Ukrainian war pushed more people into harsher stances. So not sure, how are you disagreeing with me thre. But facts are facts this line of yours is BS: > No one in Latvia, Poland, Czech Republic, etc. looks back on the time with fondness. That no one is false. Older people that lived those times often do. This is a fact shown by all polls you will be able to find online. And also by my anecdotal recollection of virtually every 60+ people I know. So stop spreading falsehood about topics you don't know. And I say it as a child of two Poles that escaped communism, my father hated it and hated the idea he could not be an entrepeneur and buy himself a Mini Morris car. You americans are obsessed by over simplified white vs black, winners vs losers narratives and speaking in absolutes. History is more nuanced.

Arodex 2mo ago

So your family belonged to the nomenklatura, or was completely submissive to the Party... Are you certain your parents weren't informants for the SB?

Arodex 2mo ago
Funny to see how far I am downvoted for stating the obvious: if your family was doing well while everybody else was worse under an oppressive regime, they were certainly doing something for the oppressive regime... It would be more obvious if someone was talking about their family living a "happy life" during apartheid or in North Korea.

nec4b 2mo ago

>My family had an absolutely happy life for all the generations that followed WW2. Most likely your family was part of the communist elite. I believe you had a very happy life.

epolanski 2mo ago
No, they were not, why would you assume so? Communist party was very unpopular in Poland, even though registering was free and had benefits no more than 2.5% of poles ever signed to it.
- nec4b 2mo ago
  In my experience those are the people who miss the "good" old times, when everything had order and hierarchy. Wikipedia says the communist party in Poland had 3 million member which is about 10% of the population at the time. If you add the family members and close relatives, the number of people living a privileged life was quite big. Red nobility is known phenomenon in former communist countries. https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_United_Workers%27_Party https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_United_Workers%27_P...
  - epolanski 2mo ago
    You can look and Google for many polls conducted on the topic, 2014 was the first year more Poles had a negative than a positive opinion on the PRL (46 vs 44%) and that's because as time progresses average voter age goes down. People that were at least 15 by 1989 (the last year of communism in Poland) had a warm opinion on it. It's really younger generations that did not live in PRL that hold overwhelmingly negative opinions on it. In any case, I'm not sure why am I arguing with you? I'm Polish and my family lived those eras, so did my friends and their families. Simple fact is: during communism people enjoyed fair lives, there was lots of safety, everybody had a job and a roof on their head and could afford one vacation per year. People made friends, sports, had hobbies and they were younger, so they remember the times as okay. On the other hand, people that did not live them, base their opinions on vibes and their external idea of how it was to live under PRL. Look, nobody is saying that life isn't better now, of course it is. But don't believe it was that bad. It was called "second" world and not "third" for a reason. It was okay. Yet in yanks minds we were living some dystopia were everybody lacked everything and was unhappy and their neighbour was gonna report them for anything.