4 ms·

Europe is burning, rivers are at all time lows, new temperature records ar being set every year, oceans are rising and you have the gall to demand we ignore the

by vrganj 3mo ago

Europe is burning, rivers are at all time lows, new temperature records ar being set every year, oceans are rising and you have the gall to demand we ignore the obvious?

simianwords 3mo ago
[flagged]
- OlivOnTech 3mo ago
  You can find latest ipcc report (short version) here: https://www.ipcc.ch/report/ar6/syr/downloads/report/IPCC_AR6_SYR_SPM.pdf https://www.ipcc.ch/report/ar6/syr/downloads/report/IPCC_AR6... Please share your sources saying it's not getting worse.
  - simianwords 3mo ago
    [flagged]
    - inigyou 3mo ago
      Why would you measure the goodness of the future in GDP?
    - mft_ 3mo ago
      Have you tried to satisfy your open-minded curiosity on this question? A simple Google search brings up: https://lancetcountdown.org/2025-report/ https://lancetcountdown.org/2025-report/ A couple of excerpts from the front page, without even registering to access the full report: 1.1.5 Heat-related mortality Failure to curb the warming effects of climate change has seen the rate of heat-related deaths surge 23% since the 1990s, to 546,000 a year. 1.2.1 Wildfires The risk of wildfires is growing: 2024 saw a record-high 154,000 estimated deaths from wildfire smoke-derived small particulate matter air pollution (PM2.5)
      - sajithdilshan 3mo ago
        One could argue that heat related deaths could be due to the fact that there are more old people alive right now compared to any point in time in human history due to high life expectancy and they are the most vulnerable to heatwaves. Had the percentage of younger population been higher, the numbers would have been different. Also in a way it’s Karma, that older population is the one that lived their lives like there’s no future and thought that climate change is a problem for younger generations and now they would be the first to die like flies
        mft_ 3mo ago
        So... having given two contradictory opinions, which one are you settling on?
        sajithdilshan 3mo ago
        I would let Mother Nature take its course and bring balance. After all you reap what you sow
        simianwords 3mo ago
        this is one of the worst positions to take and accepting no agency in the process.. and making out "nature" to be some mysterious persona that has a balancing effect for some reason
    - Jansemon 3mo ago
      What do you mean, "nowhere does it say that things get worse overall"? Do you need to get it explicitly spelled out for you to realize that the environment and ecosystems everywhere are under extreme stress (to say it mildly) and failing!? Do you really believe, that the way humans are using resources and polluting everything, doesn't have any negative impact? And why the hell would the GDP be ANY good measurement, since it does not include any environmental costs (if I don't need to correctly dispose of my trash and can burn it cheaper, I have an economic advantage in the way of less costs)? And your OECD study: doesn't it specifically talk about economic impact if climate change measures ARE being implemented (especially emission reductions)? This of course makes sense, as this would imply massive investments in technologies and sectors. This source specifically does not make a case for climate change being not as bad as predicted or that it doesn't take place. Looking at the current state of the world (especially ecosystems, which are extremely important for us), I really wonder how someone can make an argument, that it isn't as bad as it is made out to be. It is often way worse, as many things aren't really talked about in the open.
      - parineum 3mo ago
        > Do you need to get it explicitly spelled out for you to realize that the environment and ecosystems everywhere are under extreme stress That's anthropomorphizing. The ecosystem cannot be stressed because it has no natural/good state. > And why the hell would the GDP be ANY good measurement, since it does not include any environmental costs (if I don't need to correctly dispose of my trash and can burn it cheaper, I have an economic advantage in the way of less costs)? Because people predict life will eventually get worse. Your scenario is why people are making bad long term decisions (according to you) but the reason it's a bad long term choice is because it's supposed to lead to bad outcomes for humanity. GDP is a pretty decent measure of quality of life. If the climate gets worse but quality of life gets better, it's not quite the catastrophe that's often claimed. Not OP but that's the point being made. Essentially you're both talking about different things. you're saying the environment will be worse and OP is saying we'll be better off. You're also saying a worse environment will make us worse of but not backing that up with data. OP is. That data might be bad but I haven't seen you say anything that would make me doubt it but the OECD has overseen a period of immense improvement of all the measures OP is talking about. OPs argument is that climate change might kill a billion people but the energy used that creates that climate change created two billion people with better lives.
- vrganj 3mo ago
  The whole is nothing but the sum of specifics. The oceans are boiling [0], marine life is dying [1]. Land close to the water will be land under water soon [2]. The ice caps are melting and setting free all sorts of diseases. [3] Large parts of our planet on fire all the time now, here's one from Australia from this year [4], but I'm sure you've read about wildfires in Spain and France this year, Australia last year, California every year, Greece last year etc etc. Rivers in Europe are at an all-time low [5], nuclear power plants need to shut down because they can't be cooled anymore. [6] It takes deep ideological commitment to close ones eyes to the obvious. [0] https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2026/jan/09/profound-impacts-record-ocean-heat-intensifying-climate-disasters https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2026/jan/09/profound... [1] https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2026/jan/09/profound-impacts-record-ocean-heat-intensifying-climate-disasters https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2026/jan/09/profound... [2] https://www.nature.com/articles/s43247-025-02299-w https://www.nature.com/articles/s43247-025-02299-w [3] https://www.unep.org/news-and-stories/story/could-microbes-locked-arctic-ice-millennia-unleash-wave-deadly-diseases https://www.unep.org/news-and-stories/story/could-microbes-l... [4] https://phys.org/news/2026-01-australia-declares-state-disaster-bushfires.html https://phys.org/news/2026-01-australia-declares-state-disas... [5] https://eu-space.europa.eu/components/earth-observation-copernicus/image-of-the-day/europes-major-rivers-record-low-water-levels https://eu-space.europa.eu/components/earth-observation-cope... [6] https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cn0nqv05g0do https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cn0nqv05g0do
  - k33n 3mo ago
    [flagged]
    - vrganj 3mo ago
      This is precisely the ideologically driven blindness that is a symptom of said death cult.
  - simianwords 3mo ago
    But life expectancy is highest and stil increasing. Do you have any proof this trend would reverse?
- cumshitpiss 3mo ago
  [dead]

by vrganj 3mo ago

Europe is burning, rivers are at all time lows, new temperature records ar being set every year, oceans are rising and you have the gall to demand we ignore the obvious?

simianwords 3mo ago

[flagged]

OlivOnTech 3mo ago
You can find latest ipcc report (short version) here: https://www.ipcc.ch/report/ar6/syr/downloads/report/IPCC_AR6_SYR_SPM.pdf https://www.ipcc.ch/report/ar6/syr/downloads/report/IPCC_AR6... Please share your sources saying it's not getting worse.
- simianwords 3mo ago
  [flagged]
  - inigyou 3mo ago
    Why would you measure the goodness of the future in GDP?
  - mft_ 3mo ago
    Have you tried to satisfy your open-minded curiosity on this question? A simple Google search brings up: https://lancetcountdown.org/2025-report/ https://lancetcountdown.org/2025-report/ A couple of excerpts from the front page, without even registering to access the full report: 1.1.5 Heat-related mortality Failure to curb the warming effects of climate change has seen the rate of heat-related deaths surge 23% since the 1990s, to 546,000 a year. 1.2.1 Wildfires The risk of wildfires is growing: 2024 saw a record-high 154,000 estimated deaths from wildfire smoke-derived small particulate matter air pollution (PM2.5)
    - sajithdilshan 3mo ago
      One could argue that heat related deaths could be due to the fact that there are more old people alive right now compared to any point in time in human history due to high life expectancy and they are the most vulnerable to heatwaves. Had the percentage of younger population been higher, the numbers would have been different. Also in a way it’s Karma, that older population is the one that lived their lives like there’s no future and thought that climate change is a problem for younger generations and now they would be the first to die like flies
      - mft_ 3mo ago
        So... having given two contradictory opinions, which one are you settling on?
        sajithdilshan 3mo ago
        I would let Mother Nature take its course and bring balance. After all you reap what you sow
        simianwords 3mo ago
        this is one of the worst positions to take and accepting no agency in the process.. and making out "nature" to be some mysterious persona that has a balancing effect for some reason
  - Jansemon 3mo ago
    What do you mean, "nowhere does it say that things get worse overall"? Do you need to get it explicitly spelled out for you to realize that the environment and ecosystems everywhere are under extreme stress (to say it mildly) and failing!? Do you really believe, that the way humans are using resources and polluting everything, doesn't have any negative impact? And why the hell would the GDP be ANY good measurement, since it does not include any environmental costs (if I don't need to correctly dispose of my trash and can burn it cheaper, I have an economic advantage in the way of less costs)? And your OECD study: doesn't it specifically talk about economic impact if climate change measures ARE being implemented (especially emission reductions)? This of course makes sense, as this would imply massive investments in technologies and sectors. This source specifically does not make a case for climate change being not as bad as predicted or that it doesn't take place. Looking at the current state of the world (especially ecosystems, which are extremely important for us), I really wonder how someone can make an argument, that it isn't as bad as it is made out to be. It is often way worse, as many things aren't really talked about in the open.
    - parineum 3mo ago
      > Do you need to get it explicitly spelled out for you to realize that the environment and ecosystems everywhere are under extreme stress That's anthropomorphizing. The ecosystem cannot be stressed because it has no natural/good state. > And why the hell would the GDP be ANY good measurement, since it does not include any environmental costs (if I don't need to correctly dispose of my trash and can burn it cheaper, I have an economic advantage in the way of less costs)? Because people predict life will eventually get worse. Your scenario is why people are making bad long term decisions (according to you) but the reason it's a bad long term choice is because it's supposed to lead to bad outcomes for humanity. GDP is a pretty decent measure of quality of life. If the climate gets worse but quality of life gets better, it's not quite the catastrophe that's often claimed. Not OP but that's the point being made. Essentially you're both talking about different things. you're saying the environment will be worse and OP is saying we'll be better off. You're also saying a worse environment will make us worse of but not backing that up with data. OP is. That data might be bad but I haven't seen you say anything that would make me doubt it but the OECD has overseen a period of immense improvement of all the measures OP is talking about. OPs argument is that climate change might kill a billion people but the energy used that creates that climate change created two billion people with better lives.
vrganj 3mo ago
The whole is nothing but the sum of specifics. The oceans are boiling [0], marine life is dying [1]. Land close to the water will be land under water soon [2]. The ice caps are melting and setting free all sorts of diseases. [3] Large parts of our planet on fire all the time now, here's one from Australia from this year [4], but I'm sure you've read about wildfires in Spain and France this year, Australia last year, California every year, Greece last year etc etc. Rivers in Europe are at an all-time low [5], nuclear power plants need to shut down because they can't be cooled anymore. [6] It takes deep ideological commitment to close ones eyes to the obvious. [0] https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2026/jan/09/profound-impacts-record-ocean-heat-intensifying-climate-disasters https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2026/jan/09/profound... [1] https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2026/jan/09/profound-impacts-record-ocean-heat-intensifying-climate-disasters https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2026/jan/09/profound... [2] https://www.nature.com/articles/s43247-025-02299-w https://www.nature.com/articles/s43247-025-02299-w [3] https://www.unep.org/news-and-stories/story/could-microbes-locked-arctic-ice-millennia-unleash-wave-deadly-diseases https://www.unep.org/news-and-stories/story/could-microbes-l... [4] https://phys.org/news/2026-01-australia-declares-state-disaster-bushfires.html https://phys.org/news/2026-01-australia-declares-state-disas... [5] https://eu-space.europa.eu/components/earth-observation-copernicus/image-of-the-day/europes-major-rivers-record-low-water-levels https://eu-space.europa.eu/components/earth-observation-cope... [6] https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cn0nqv05g0do https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cn0nqv05g0do
- k33n 3mo ago
  [flagged]
  - vrganj 3mo ago
    This is precisely the ideologically driven blindness that is a symptom of said death cult.
- simianwords 3mo ago
  But life expectancy is highest and stil increasing. Do you have any proof this trend would reverse?
cumshitpiss 3mo ago
[dead]