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That's kind of my point. It's not cold - to you - because you are used to it. In Hungary or Romania since energy is (or was) cheap, due to residual/waste heat f

That's kind of my point. It's not cold - to you - because you are used to it. In Hungary or Romania since energy is (or was) cheap, due to residual/waste heat from power plants everyone heats their homes to 23-24C. Because if you have "free" energy, why not? That's what people feel comfortable at home. If you would drop a Hungarian to your 18C northern Spanish home they would be incredibly uncomfortable, but the same for an American. I'm not saying this for you to feel bad, or question your cultural heating standards - just pointing out in Europe we have an incredible energy poverty for the most part - and even Spain wasn't like this pre-Franco. People have heated their homes much more, same with coffee etc. That terrible torrefacto was not a thing before, but that's a whole another conversation. Re-reading what I wrote I don't think you will really grasp my point due to me not being to articulate it well enough and I hope I don't come across combative. Spain does a million things perfectly and I don't mean to criticize... My point is I think somehow, to create and foster policy that focuses on the well-being of people, using a long-term plan that includes an abundance of everything, including energy. In an ideal scenario you could have your apartment at 18C if you wanted to, but since energy would be near-free and abundant, you could turn it up to whatever you want, guilt-free.

wolvoleo 2mo ago
Hmm no, 23-24 in winter is not comfortable for me. It's incredibly uncomfortable. I'm much happier in 18 degrees. But I'm not from Spain. I have been to Romania a lot and I really hated how much they heated the office during winter. I'd go outside in the -15C in my shirt just to cool off during meeting breaks. Honestly I'm super comfortable in Spain most of the year. Just 1 month I need a little extra heating and 3 months I need aircon, and a lot of it. But summer is also peak time for solar so energy wise it's not bad. But I don't consider it poverty at all, really. It's also important not to have too much of a temperature mismatch with the outside because we spend a lot of time outdoors here. And not in airconditioned cars because I don't have (nor want) a car. I'm a lot happier with the freedom that public transport offers.
- ricardobayes 2mo ago
  Yes, for what it's worth, solar is an incredibly good start (for Spain at least) for said energy abundance. Approaching from the other way, there are actually quite a few Spanish who say using the aircon is wasteful, expensive or even claim that it's unhealthy. Most of these beliefs stem from the fact it's considered something exotic, expensive, consumerist and foreign. If energy was so cheap it costed basically nothing to run the AC, these beliefs would fade soon (as they had in the US, or China). My dream is to see a well-heated (to your personal preference), and well-climatized Europe where anyone can easily afford to do both.

wolvoleo 2mo ago

Hmm no, 23-24 in winter is not comfortable for me. It's incredibly uncomfortable. I'm much happier in 18 degrees. But I'm not from Spain. I have been to Romania a lot and I really hated how much they heated the office during winter. I'd go outside in the -15C in my shirt just to cool off during meeting breaks. Honestly I'm super comfortable in Spain most of the year. Just 1 month I need a little extra heating and 3 months I need aircon, and a lot of it. But summer is also peak time for solar so energy wise it's not bad. But I don't consider it poverty at all, really. It's also important not to have too much of a temperature mismatch with the outside because we spend a lot of time outdoors here. And not in airconditioned cars because I don't have (nor want) a car. I'm a lot happier with the freedom that public transport offers.

ricardobayes 2mo ago
Yes, for what it's worth, solar is an incredibly good start (for Spain at least) for said energy abundance. Approaching from the other way, there are actually quite a few Spanish who say using the aircon is wasteful, expensive or even claim that it's unhealthy. Most of these beliefs stem from the fact it's considered something exotic, expensive, consumerist and foreign. If energy was so cheap it costed basically nothing to run the AC, these beliefs would fade soon (as they had in the US, or China). My dream is to see a well-heated (to your personal preference), and well-climatized Europe where anyone can easily afford to do both.