4 ms·

Because my boss like golf courses and even more when oracle sales rep pays.

TimTheTinker 2mo ago
Wait, Oracle sales reps give decision-makers personal kickbacks for buying Oracle?? Stay classy Oracle. Such a banal depth of evil. Why hasn't this been outlawed? I guess companies that knowingly employ such managers deserve to lose whatever Oracle's legal team extracts out of them.
- xyzzy_plugh 2mo ago
  You've clearly never purchased enterprise software at scale before. Oracle doesn't do anything that everyone else isn't already doing. Dinners, drinks, bottles of scotch, tickets to baseball and football games, plane tickets to attend training sessions in conference rooms attached to nice beachside hotels, business lunches at strip clubs, Superbowl tickets, cruise tickets, wristwatches... Not to mention mugs, tshirts, water bottles and stickers. Everything is on the menu.
  - TimTheTinker 2mo ago
    I'm calling my senators and house rep. Holy crap.
    - kdheiwns 2mo ago
      Not sure why you're surprised. That's just how business/networking/capitalism works everywhere on earth and it's been like that since the dawn of civilization. And why would Congress stop is since they're all getting the same benefits and don't even hide it?
      - TimTheTinker 2mo ago
        I guess I thought integrity was still at least considered an ideal to strive for in the West.
        kdheiwns 2mo ago
        That imaginary integrity never existed. If anything, favors for favors are now less common than they used to be.
        inigyou 2mo ago
        That's just what they tell the peons, so the peons won't compete with them for the corruption opportunities.
        ekianjo 2mo ago
        why do you think politicians want to become politicians? so that they can get the gravy too
      - eru 2mo ago
        Well, nothing specific to capitalism here.
    - Bendy 2mo ago
      There is a scene in a French documentary in which a former Dassault boss displays his vintage wine collection as one of his many tools to ease arms supply deals with various nations. When the journalist asked him if it really works like this he responded, “Of course, because men are pigs!”
    - Alien1Being 2mo ago
      Your naivete is refreshing, but not particularly useful. Your senators and house reps are the beneficiary of various forms of largesse from political donors. "Billionaire ** and her *** ** *** are among the most prolific megadonors in modern American political history, funneling hundreds of millions of dollars overwhelmingly to ***, ****"
    - crysin 2mo ago
      Spoiler: Your senators and house rep also take bribes!
    - justinclift 2mo ago
      You'll just be pointing them towards their next income bump. ;)
  - lenkite 2mo ago
    Our company has a strict gift giving and no-bribes policy. Everyone needs to sign that they have read it. It is even more extensive for the sales/procurement teams.
    - xyzzy_plugh 2mo ago
      Of course, I signed many such agreements. I've also turned down a ton of "gifts" such as these. But oftentimes they are not clearly gifts or bribes. For example, inviting you or your team out for dinner and drinks can be harmless. It's not unusual to take clients out, even to sporting events. As long as the host party is present, and there is intent to network or discuss business, it usually qualifies as "corporate hospitality" -- even the strip club! All expensed and paid for out of the marketing budget. A far cry from gifts or bribes, apparently!
- smuhakg 2mo ago
  They've been charged multiple times for bribing foreign government officials. https://www.sec.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2022-173 https://www.sec.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2022-173 This is why corporate procurement in a large enterprise is so bureaucratic. If you have 20 layers of approval that's 20 people that need cocaine and prostitutes yet could blow the whistle.
  - walrus01 2mo ago
    > They've been charged multiple times for bribing foreign government officials. Maybe they've been hiring former SNC Lavalin executives?
  - preg_match 2mo ago
    One of the worst side-effects of corruption and cronyism isn't even the corruption part, it's the insane administrative cost it inevitably breeds in process in order to try to fix. This is largely why the US government is so inefficient. Our government agencies have been trained to outsource absolutely everything. A static site? No, you couldn't possibly hire one or two engineers to do that, you need a multi-million dollar contract! Well, when you do that, the corruption risk is through the roof. Now we mitigate with anti-corruption, anti-fraud checks out the fucking wazoo. That's expensive. And we're putting that expense ON TOP of the exorbitant contract fees.
- eru 2mo ago
  > Wait, Oracle sales reps give decision-makers personal kickbacks for buying Oracle?? When Oracle does it, it's a scandal. But when an airline gives people personal 'miles' for their business trips, it's business as usual.
- inigyou 2mo ago
  Pretty much every business does this to acquire large corporate and government customers. Every customer acquisition will be weeks or months of in-person discussions over golf, expensive dinners, resort vacations, or the like.
- listenallyall 2mo ago
  How is it a kickback to invite someone to play golf? A kickback would be if he handed him a big check in the locker room. Take it easy dude, it's business, kickback or not certainly isn't "evil".
  - tsimionescu 2mo ago
    How is paying for someone to have fun with the intention that they will then do business with you not a kickback? Just because you're not getting cash doesn't mean it's not a bribe.
    - listenallyall 2mo ago
      It's a meeting, a sales pitch, that takes place on a golf course. No different than over a meal, or at a sporting event. A kickback, by definition, only happens after the deal is closed, the recipient of the funds "kicks back" some of the revenue (or his commission) to the decision maker. If hasn't progressed beyond "the intention that they will do business with you" then it can't be a kickback.
      - mietek 2mo ago
        Keep telling yourself that.
      - tsimionescu 2mo ago
        What happens here is that the buyer "kicks back" a fat contract to their sales buddy who took them to that great golf resort. Or, if the terminology is wrong, you can just say that the sales agent bribed the buyer with a golf trip in order to get the contract on better terms, to the detriment of they buyer's company. Either way, golf games paid for by people trying to sell something are obviously morally and ethically wrong, and would be extremely illegal if they happened with a government employee.
        listenallyall 2mo ago
        What happens when two salesmen both take the guy out for golf? Someone's getting stiffed, right? And it happens with government employees all the time, just a bit differently. The lobbyist is a member at Shinnecock Hills or some other private, prestigious golf course that costs $100,000+ to join. Then he invites the senator out, the "guest fee" is a nominal amount like $120, which he happily pays to play a round on a US Open quality course. Of course the senator charges his transportation and hotel to his office, paid out of campaign funds or something. Shit like this happens every single day, stop pretending to be so shocked or morally righteous.
csixty4 2mo ago
Mine liked steak dinners.

Wait, Oracle sales reps give decision-makers personal kickbacks for buying Oracle?? Stay classy Oracle. Such a banal depth of evil. Why hasn't this been outlawed? I guess companies that knowingly employ such managers deserve to lose whatever Oracle's legal team extracts out of them.

xyzzy_plugh 2mo ago
You've clearly never purchased enterprise software at scale before. Oracle doesn't do anything that everyone else isn't already doing. Dinners, drinks, bottles of scotch, tickets to baseball and football games, plane tickets to attend training sessions in conference rooms attached to nice beachside hotels, business lunches at strip clubs, Superbowl tickets, cruise tickets, wristwatches... Not to mention mugs, tshirts, water bottles and stickers. Everything is on the menu.
- TimTheTinker 2mo ago
  I'm calling my senators and house rep. Holy crap.
  - kdheiwns 2mo ago
    Not sure why you're surprised. That's just how business/networking/capitalism works everywhere on earth and it's been like that since the dawn of civilization. And why would Congress stop is since they're all getting the same benefits and don't even hide it?
    - TimTheTinker 2mo ago
      I guess I thought integrity was still at least considered an ideal to strive for in the West.
      - kdheiwns 2mo ago
        That imaginary integrity never existed. If anything, favors for favors are now less common than they used to be.
      - inigyou 2mo ago
        That's just what they tell the peons, so the peons won't compete with them for the corruption opportunities.
      - ekianjo 2mo ago
        why do you think politicians want to become politicians? so that they can get the gravy too
    - eru 2mo ago
      Well, nothing specific to capitalism here.
  - Bendy 2mo ago
    There is a scene in a French documentary in which a former Dassault boss displays his vintage wine collection as one of his many tools to ease arms supply deals with various nations. When the journalist asked him if it really works like this he responded, “Of course, because men are pigs!”
  - Alien1Being 2mo ago
    Your naivete is refreshing, but not particularly useful. Your senators and house reps are the beneficiary of various forms of largesse from political donors. "Billionaire ** and her *** ** *** are among the most prolific megadonors in modern American political history, funneling hundreds of millions of dollars overwhelmingly to ***, ****"
  - crysin 2mo ago
    Spoiler: Your senators and house rep also take bribes!
  - justinclift 2mo ago
    You'll just be pointing them towards their next income bump. ;)
- lenkite 2mo ago
  Our company has a strict gift giving and no-bribes policy. Everyone needs to sign that they have read it. It is even more extensive for the sales/procurement teams.
  - xyzzy_plugh 2mo ago
    Of course, I signed many such agreements. I've also turned down a ton of "gifts" such as these. But oftentimes they are not clearly gifts or bribes. For example, inviting you or your team out for dinner and drinks can be harmless. It's not unusual to take clients out, even to sporting events. As long as the host party is present, and there is intent to network or discuss business, it usually qualifies as "corporate hospitality" -- even the strip club! All expensed and paid for out of the marketing budget. A far cry from gifts or bribes, apparently!
smuhakg 2mo ago
They've been charged multiple times for bribing foreign government officials. https://www.sec.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2022-173 https://www.sec.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2022-173 This is why corporate procurement in a large enterprise is so bureaucratic. If you have 20 layers of approval that's 20 people that need cocaine and prostitutes yet could blow the whistle.
- walrus01 2mo ago
  > They've been charged multiple times for bribing foreign government officials. Maybe they've been hiring former SNC Lavalin executives?
- preg_match 2mo ago
  One of the worst side-effects of corruption and cronyism isn't even the corruption part, it's the insane administrative cost it inevitably breeds in process in order to try to fix. This is largely why the US government is so inefficient. Our government agencies have been trained to outsource absolutely everything. A static site? No, you couldn't possibly hire one or two engineers to do that, you need a multi-million dollar contract! Well, when you do that, the corruption risk is through the roof. Now we mitigate with anti-corruption, anti-fraud checks out the fucking wazoo. That's expensive. And we're putting that expense ON TOP of the exorbitant contract fees.
eru 2mo ago
> Wait, Oracle sales reps give decision-makers personal kickbacks for buying Oracle?? When Oracle does it, it's a scandal. But when an airline gives people personal 'miles' for their business trips, it's business as usual.
inigyou 2mo ago
Pretty much every business does this to acquire large corporate and government customers. Every customer acquisition will be weeks or months of in-person discussions over golf, expensive dinners, resort vacations, or the like.
listenallyall 2mo ago
How is it a kickback to invite someone to play golf? A kickback would be if he handed him a big check in the locker room. Take it easy dude, it's business, kickback or not certainly isn't "evil".
- tsimionescu 2mo ago
  How is paying for someone to have fun with the intention that they will then do business with you not a kickback? Just because you're not getting cash doesn't mean it's not a bribe.
  - listenallyall 2mo ago
    It's a meeting, a sales pitch, that takes place on a golf course. No different than over a meal, or at a sporting event. A kickback, by definition, only happens after the deal is closed, the recipient of the funds "kicks back" some of the revenue (or his commission) to the decision maker. If hasn't progressed beyond "the intention that they will do business with you" then it can't be a kickback.
    - mietek 2mo ago
      Keep telling yourself that.
    - tsimionescu 2mo ago
      What happens here is that the buyer "kicks back" a fat contract to their sales buddy who took them to that great golf resort. Or, if the terminology is wrong, you can just say that the sales agent bribed the buyer with a golf trip in order to get the contract on better terms, to the detriment of they buyer's company. Either way, golf games paid for by people trying to sell something are obviously morally and ethically wrong, and would be extremely illegal if they happened with a government employee.
      - listenallyall 2mo ago
        What happens when two salesmen both take the guy out for golf? Someone's getting stiffed, right? And it happens with government employees all the time, just a bit differently. The lobbyist is a member at Shinnecock Hills or some other private, prestigious golf course that costs $100,000+ to join. Then he invites the senator out, the "guest fee" is a nominal amount like $120, which he happily pays to play a round on a US Open quality course. Of course the senator charges his transportation and hotel to his office, paid out of campaign funds or something. Shit like this happens every single day, stop pretending to be so shocked or morally righteous.

csixty4 2mo ago

Mine liked steak dinners.