4 ms·

I’m sorry if I am being uncharitable, but are you saying the solution to depression is that people’s friends groups (which the depressed person may not have acc

I’m sorry if I am being uncharitable, but are you saying the solution to depression is that people’s friends groups (which the depressed person may not have access to to begin with) is to just like, bully them out of it? lol? Tell me you’ve never had a depressive episode without telling me. hint: the people with support groups in the first place are less vulnerable and bullying depression doesn’t really help, I could point you to a ton of studies, but this post makes me a bit nauseous. I dont disagree that depressive online spaces breed more depressive cycles, but good lord, what you seem to be implying is even worse. You can’t just brute force “hey cheer up” no matter the group structure. like particularly this: > If that clue isn't heeded the friend often gets targeted 1:1 offers for help and can eventually just be shut out of the group altogether for being too negative. Is not ever helping a clinically depressed person. especially when offers of “help” are often quite victim blamey and threatening like the tone of your post here - stop bringing the vibe down, or we’ll make you feel even more isolated! good lord. Try bringing them a meal or giving them a compliment first? holy shit.

Karrot_Kream 2mo ago
You are being uncharitable. In fact, you're demonstrating the dynamics I spoke of in my post. I could give you a detailed response but, given your tone, instead I'll say: assume the best and don't make everything about yourself. Several people I know have struggled with negative mental health effects of finding themselves in a caretaker role for a mentally ill friend or partner. In my experience offline groups (not individual relationships) have pretty good immune systems for this. They also often do band together to support or help a struggling friend. In the same way that you expect a depressed person to receive charity, please offer it in your responses.
- necklesspen 2mo ago
  I'm not the person you're responding to - but I do too wonder what you meant. I would surely think that among friends it's not going to be the case that a depressed person soapboxing is met with the response you describe. I think I would agree with you if it's somewhat of a wider circle - acquaintances perhaps - that I'd expect the average response to play out as you described. But also perhaps the term soapboxing could mean something different to me - I assumed because you mention a depressive person it would be more personal, but if it's like political venting then yeah I would probably also agree with you.
- CoastalCoder 2mo ago
  For what it's worth, I think I understood your original post as you intended it. (Just mentioning this so you know the wording wasn't universally confusing.)
- strangegecko 2mo ago
  FWIW, I had a similar impression of your comment as JohnMakin. > give the friend a subtle clue that it's time to move on If a friend needs someone to listen about life struggles and you tell them you're tired of it and don't want to hear it anymore, then you're not being a friend. Maybe you want to be encouraging and that is fine, probably helpful. But you immediately seem to turn that encouragement into threats of social exclusion: > If that clue isn't heeded the friend often gets targeted 1:1 offers for help and can eventually just be shut out of the group altogether for being too negative. I've seen this many times - people suggest "solutions" to something they don't quite understand, then get angry when people don't take their non-functional solution. Similarly, in online support groups, I've seen plenty of people storm off angrily because people are being "too negative", not seeing that sharing these feelings, wanting to be heard and knowing you're not alone with certain struggles can be part of a discovery and healing process. Those people use similar language you used in your comment of "misery loves company", essentially accusing people of wanting to be miserable and choosing depression. If you want people to read what you write in a charitable fashion, refusing to explain the background for your comments is rather dysfunctional BTW. In general, people don't all have the same mental context and experience background to understand where you're coming from.
  - mihaic 2mo ago
    As a person who has actually helped friends with depression, I can totally understand on the other hand where Karrot_Kream is coming from. I think he wrote enough for an internet comment, and anyone should probably ask for more context instead of jumping to a negative conclusion.
  - johnnyanmac 2mo ago
    >If a friend needs someone to listen about life struggles and you tell them you're tired of it and don't want to hear it anymore, then you're not being a friend. That sort of feedback is exactly why males can often feel like they have no one to go to. Even if they theoretically have "friends". They are trying to reach out and instead they are rejected from their support group. If they don't have a spouse (and why should you need to be romantically involved to want to listen out to someone's problems?) then they might feel they have no one to go to. So now they are the perfect audience for radicalization. To be told "I understand you, it's not your fault, it's [insert target to redirect issues onto]'s fault instead. We need to correct [target] and you'll feel better!".
- JohnMakin 2mo ago
  depression is not the same as clinical mental illness. one is a symptom, one is a disease. your delusion seems to be that it can be reasoned and talked through which I interpreted by how you expressed that as bullying (it is). it can’t be reasoned with. I’m making nothing about myself - don’t really appreciate that projection by the way - I am not a depressed person, but have also been in the situation of caretaking for someone who has experienced this. I can’t even imagine acting on the reckless advice you’ve posted here. but thanks for the tone policing. have a good day.
dayglo 2mo ago
The devil is always in the detail with these sorts of online disagreements. Let’s say you have a friend who is always miserable, always needs support, and turns every gathering into a therapy session for them and their problem. Let’s say you’ve been friends with them for say, fifteen years. Nothing has helped. They never go and get therapy, they never go and do any exercise, they constantly do the same things over and over and still expect support. Wouldn’t you stop wanting to hear them talk? Maybe even stop being their friend ? What’s the limit ?

Karrot_Kream 2mo ago

You are being uncharitable. In fact, you're demonstrating the dynamics I spoke of in my post. I could give you a detailed response but, given your tone, instead I'll say: assume the best and don't make everything about yourself. Several people I know have struggled with negative mental health effects of finding themselves in a caretaker role for a mentally ill friend or partner. In my experience offline groups (not individual relationships) have pretty good immune systems for this. They also often do band together to support or help a struggling friend. In the same way that you expect a depressed person to receive charity, please offer it in your responses.

necklesspen 2mo ago
I'm not the person you're responding to - but I do too wonder what you meant. I would surely think that among friends it's not going to be the case that a depressed person soapboxing is met with the response you describe. I think I would agree with you if it's somewhat of a wider circle - acquaintances perhaps - that I'd expect the average response to play out as you described. But also perhaps the term soapboxing could mean something different to me - I assumed because you mention a depressive person it would be more personal, but if it's like political venting then yeah I would probably also agree with you.
CoastalCoder 2mo ago
For what it's worth, I think I understood your original post as you intended it. (Just mentioning this so you know the wording wasn't universally confusing.)
strangegecko 2mo ago
FWIW, I had a similar impression of your comment as JohnMakin. > give the friend a subtle clue that it's time to move on If a friend needs someone to listen about life struggles and you tell them you're tired of it and don't want to hear it anymore, then you're not being a friend. Maybe you want to be encouraging and that is fine, probably helpful. But you immediately seem to turn that encouragement into threats of social exclusion: > If that clue isn't heeded the friend often gets targeted 1:1 offers for help and can eventually just be shut out of the group altogether for being too negative. I've seen this many times - people suggest "solutions" to something they don't quite understand, then get angry when people don't take their non-functional solution. Similarly, in online support groups, I've seen plenty of people storm off angrily because people are being "too negative", not seeing that sharing these feelings, wanting to be heard and knowing you're not alone with certain struggles can be part of a discovery and healing process. Those people use similar language you used in your comment of "misery loves company", essentially accusing people of wanting to be miserable and choosing depression. If you want people to read what you write in a charitable fashion, refusing to explain the background for your comments is rather dysfunctional BTW. In general, people don't all have the same mental context and experience background to understand where you're coming from.
- mihaic 2mo ago
  As a person who has actually helped friends with depression, I can totally understand on the other hand where Karrot_Kream is coming from. I think he wrote enough for an internet comment, and anyone should probably ask for more context instead of jumping to a negative conclusion.
- johnnyanmac 2mo ago
  >If a friend needs someone to listen about life struggles and you tell them you're tired of it and don't want to hear it anymore, then you're not being a friend. That sort of feedback is exactly why males can often feel like they have no one to go to. Even if they theoretically have "friends". They are trying to reach out and instead they are rejected from their support group. If they don't have a spouse (and why should you need to be romantically involved to want to listen out to someone's problems?) then they might feel they have no one to go to. So now they are the perfect audience for radicalization. To be told "I understand you, it's not your fault, it's [insert target to redirect issues onto]'s fault instead. We need to correct [target] and you'll feel better!".
JohnMakin 2mo ago
depression is not the same as clinical mental illness. one is a symptom, one is a disease. your delusion seems to be that it can be reasoned and talked through which I interpreted by how you expressed that as bullying (it is). it can’t be reasoned with. I’m making nothing about myself - don’t really appreciate that projection by the way - I am not a depressed person, but have also been in the situation of caretaking for someone who has experienced this. I can’t even imagine acting on the reckless advice you’ve posted here. but thanks for the tone policing. have a good day.

dayglo 2mo ago

The devil is always in the detail with these sorts of online disagreements. Let’s say you have a friend who is always miserable, always needs support, and turns every gathering into a therapy session for them and their problem. Let’s say you’ve been friends with them for say, fifteen years. Nothing has helped. They never go and get therapy, they never go and do any exercise, they constantly do the same things over and over and still expect support. Wouldn’t you stop wanting to hear them talk? Maybe even stop being their friend ? What’s the limit ?