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I've not seen this at all. In my experience, most open source project leaders are very congenial and gracious that you're spending time on their project. I did

by bryanh 14y ago

I've not seen this at all. In my experience, most open source project leaders are very congenial and gracious that you're spending time on their project. I did some poking around and couldn't find any OSS leads that disparaged their contributors. Not sure if the lack of examples was an attempt to not "name and blame" or if there aren't many good ones. OP, to be clear, this isn't merely leads saying "this code/feature/suggestion is inappropriate" to pull requests, but honest malice?

whatshisface 14y ago
>I've not seen this at all. Well, there is always everyone's favorite grumpy uncle Linus. :) I think it ends up being 'ok' for him to do it because nobody questions the importance of a kernel being perfect.
- akkartik 14y ago
  Linus being flame-y is not the same thing at all. He's not telling people to RTFM afaics.
  - npsimons 14y ago
    I was about to say this same thing; Linus is extremely tame by most people's standards, and when he does get snippy, he tends to reserve vitriol mostly for those who should know better. If he does take the time to criticize a "noob", it's not because they are a beginner, it's because their idea is flat out wrong. Take the whole git/C++ email exchange (http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.version-control.git/57643/focus=57918 http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.version-control.git/57643...) and notice how Linus didn't get flame-y until the OP did. Or the whole Con Kolivas/Ingo Molnar scheduler debacle: there were perfectly good reasons why Torvalds chose Molnar's implementation over Kolivas's. The truth of the matter is, Linus doesn't really have time to respond to every hare-brained idea that people have for the kernel. Add to that he's been doing this for a while. If you feel maligned, you might want to consider a) Linus is probably right b) if you really want to hack on the kernel, you should know better and c) if you want due consideration from people more busy than you, you should give your idea due consideration yourself. Edit to followup: until you've lurked on LKML for a while, or heard an interview, or, I dunno, maybe actually had a live conversation with Torvalds, you are probably being lead to believe he's an asshole by people with bones to pick with him (eg, people who should know better who he told off). As someone else pointed out farther down thread, how many times have we seen links to a single email/blog post by Torvalds without the context of the person he is responding to?
    - officemonkey 14y ago
      >if you want due consideration from people more busy than you, you should give your idea due consideration yourself. I am keeping this quote and will give you proper attribution.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
akkartik 14y ago
Yeah, the article is lacking in real examples. In my experience the leaders of successful projects are nice because of the straightforward selection pressure for projects that don't alienate their users. Sadly it's the followers[1] that are often jerks, and they face no selection pressure (except that they gradually pollute the well for projects they support). [1] Guys like Karunamon in this thread.

by bryanh 14y ago

whatshisface 14y ago

>I've not seen this at all. Well, there is always everyone's favorite grumpy uncle Linus. :) I think it ends up being 'ok' for him to do it because nobody questions the importance of a kernel being perfect.

akkartik 14y ago
Linus being flame-y is not the same thing at all. He's not telling people to RTFM afaics.
- npsimons 14y ago
  I was about to say this same thing; Linus is extremely tame by most people's standards, and when he does get snippy, he tends to reserve vitriol mostly for those who should know better. If he does take the time to criticize a "noob", it's not because they are a beginner, it's because their idea is flat out wrong. Take the whole git/C++ email exchange (http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.version-control.git/57643/focus=57918 http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.version-control.git/57643...) and notice how Linus didn't get flame-y until the OP did. Or the whole Con Kolivas/Ingo Molnar scheduler debacle: there were perfectly good reasons why Torvalds chose Molnar's implementation over Kolivas's. The truth of the matter is, Linus doesn't really have time to respond to every hare-brained idea that people have for the kernel. Add to that he's been doing this for a while. If you feel maligned, you might want to consider a) Linus is probably right b) if you really want to hack on the kernel, you should know better and c) if you want due consideration from people more busy than you, you should give your idea due consideration yourself. Edit to followup: until you've lurked on LKML for a while, or heard an interview, or, I dunno, maybe actually had a live conversation with Torvalds, you are probably being lead to believe he's an asshole by people with bones to pick with him (eg, people who should know better who he told off). As someone else pointed out farther down thread, how many times have we seen links to a single email/blog post by Torvalds without the context of the person he is responding to?
  - officemonkey 14y ago
    >if you want due consideration from people more busy than you, you should give your idea due consideration yourself. I am keeping this quote and will give you proper attribution.
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]

akkartik 14y ago

Yeah, the article is lacking in real examples. In my experience the leaders of successful projects are nice because of the straightforward selection pressure for projects that don't alienate their users. Sadly it's the followers[1] that are often jerks, and they face no selection pressure (except that they gradually pollute the well for projects they support). [1] Guys like Karunamon in this thread.