5 ms·

It helps solve the problem of authenticating someone based on something they know (e.g. for telephone password resets, banking questions, etc.) without a ton of

by mpyne 14y ago

It helps solve the problem of authenticating someone based on something they know (e.g. for telephone password resets, banking questions, etc.) without a ton of complicated key pre-sharing. Even at the state level it may not be acceptable to have someone walk into a "local" office if it's 300 miles away. Of course by now we (as in the general public and policymakers) know that this is stupid and that there needs to be a different way. But some proposed different ways (e.g. national ID w/ built-in PKCS crypto) are highly politically unfavored, and no one seems to have come up with and popularized a better way to do it that everyone will get on board with. I personally figure that it will come down to government directing something or the other (perhaps adopting an interoperable standard which the states must implement) but Americans don't like solutions to come from government either.

halviti 14y ago
I think he's speaking more to the way the system is setup in the US. I believe every country has a system such as you describe. In my country, everyone has an ID number, much like a social security number. It is tied to everything, and is printed on everything, attached to every legal form I sign, and anyone can look my number up. If you call some place for service, it will be the first thing they ask for. There is no-reason to keep this number a secret, and just by having this number, no-one can steal my identity. In fact I have never even heard of a single case of identity theft in the country, but that's not to say that it's not possible. Anyway, I think aardwolf is commenting on the "trust" put in the fact that nobody else is going to use your number, whereas in other places, nobody is going to give you that same trust, which is why we use our identifiers more freely and rely on other methods to combat crimes like identity theft.
- narcissus 14y ago
  Conversely, in Australia there is the Tax File Number... that's about as close to a SSN as you'll get. The TFN is definitely personal. Unless you're dealing with finances in some way, it's illegal (I believe) to even ask for your TFN. Banks, employers and so on can ask for it (it makes processing your taxes easier) but I don't believe it's a requirement to even give it to them. As far as I know, the only organisation that you're required to give it to is the tax office itself. Interestingly, by virtue of this number being so 'secretive' it really is usable as an identifier only to the tax office... which, I daresay, helps to reduce 'identity theft' based around that number.
  - Turing_Machine 14y ago
    That was how the SSAN was supposed to be used here -- only for tax-related things, such as banks and employers. Unfortunately it didn't stay that way.
  - chimeracoder 14y ago
    > As far as I know, the only organisation that you're required to give it to is the tax office itself. Interestingly, by virtue of this number being so 'secretive' it really is usable as an identifier only to the tax office. Amusingly, the IRS doesn't actually ask you for your SSN as your identifier when you need to do basic things (like replace your social security card). I know of someone who was prepared to give it to them, and the agent actually scolded him, "Your social security number isn't an identifier".

by mpyne 14y ago

halviti 14y ago

I think he's speaking more to the way the system is setup in the US. I believe every country has a system such as you describe. In my country, everyone has an ID number, much like a social security number. It is tied to everything, and is printed on everything, attached to every legal form I sign, and anyone can look my number up. If you call some place for service, it will be the first thing they ask for. There is no-reason to keep this number a secret, and just by having this number, no-one can steal my identity. In fact I have never even heard of a single case of identity theft in the country, but that's not to say that it's not possible. Anyway, I think aardwolf is commenting on the "trust" put in the fact that nobody else is going to use your number, whereas in other places, nobody is going to give you that same trust, which is why we use our identifiers more freely and rely on other methods to combat crimes like identity theft.

narcissus 14y ago
Conversely, in Australia there is the Tax File Number... that's about as close to a SSN as you'll get. The TFN is definitely personal. Unless you're dealing with finances in some way, it's illegal (I believe) to even ask for your TFN. Banks, employers and so on can ask for it (it makes processing your taxes easier) but I don't believe it's a requirement to even give it to them. As far as I know, the only organisation that you're required to give it to is the tax office itself. Interestingly, by virtue of this number being so 'secretive' it really is usable as an identifier only to the tax office... which, I daresay, helps to reduce 'identity theft' based around that number.
- Turing_Machine 14y ago
  That was how the SSAN was supposed to be used here -- only for tax-related things, such as banks and employers. Unfortunately it didn't stay that way.
- chimeracoder 14y ago
  > As far as I know, the only organisation that you're required to give it to is the tax office itself. Interestingly, by virtue of this number being so 'secretive' it really is usable as an identifier only to the tax office. Amusingly, the IRS doesn't actually ask you for your SSN as your identifier when you need to do basic things (like replace your social security card). I know of someone who was prepared to give it to them, and the agent actually scolded him, "Your social security number isn't an identifier".