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Churn - Consulting is fine, but if an applicant has moved too quickly between permanent jobs it's a sign that they probably won't be at yours for long. Maybe th

Churn - Consulting is fine, but if an applicant has moved too quickly between permanent jobs it's a sign that they probably won't be at yours for long. Maybe they have a recruiter friend constantly putting new offers in front of them, or maybe they are outright incompetent and are quickly fired. My hiring team calls them "jumpers", and it's one of our biggest negatives. If you are working as a consultant, I would suggest listing the consulting company as your main job source, and any specific companies as sub-items beneath it. Make sure you don't get thrown into the jumper pile.

aaronblohowiak 18y ago
How short is "too quickly" ?
- Flemlord 18y ago
  If the last three jobs were held <2 years.
  - mrtron 18y ago
    This stat is accurate for applying >10 years ago. Never stay at a crappy job so it appears 'better' on your resume, when I am hiring I look only at what you worked on. Many candidates of higher caliber I interviewed bounced around.
    - sho 18y ago
      Exactly right. The employer who rejected anyone who moved around a lot (usually 12 to 18 months, with a maximum stay anywhere of around 2 years) would exclude pretty much all the best people I know. I suppose it depends what you're looking for. A lawyer firm or family medical practise might be looking for long term stability for the sake of their patients/clients. But for programming, and I assume that most of us on "hacker news" are programmers, you want passion, initiative and the ability to actually get things done. It's a completely natural cycle to arrive somewhere new with a new project, full of passion, and to put a lot of work into it. After a while, around 18 months for me, you're sick of it and ready to move on. There is no point, either for you or the company, at pretending otherwise and sticking around just to clock up the hours. And what you really don't want is the "lifer" mentality. The role of "permanent full time worker" is retrograde and disappearing fast. Perhaps it's better to cast out the concept entirely and start thinking purely in terms of contracts. I suspect that a large number of the best programmers already think like this and companies that can't adapt to that will simply miss out.
smokinn 18y ago
What about my situation? I got a job right out of school and worked so much overtime I more or less burnt out on it. When they showed me graphs of how much money I made them and didn't even bother with a Christmas bonus I quit. The company I then went to more or less lied about what I was actually going to do so I quit there too. (Even though they were paying me twice the amount I was previously making.) I only lasted 9 months at the first job and 6 months at the second. I'm on my third job now (thankfully I like this one so I'll be here hopefully for a while) and I graduated less than 2 years ago. I suppose my resume would make me look like a job hopper so you'd hold that against me?
- Flemlord 18y ago
  Yes, I would. Would you quit the first time you thought you deserved a bonus and didn't get one? You may be a good fit, but having three jobs in two years makes me nervous. Another warning sign we look for is when somebody trashes their old company. In every case where that happened and we made the hire, that person was trashing our company within six months.
  - smokinn 18y ago
    Thanks, I know it makes sense from an employer perspective, I just wanted to point out that there are exceptions so while I can understand reluctance in the interview I personally wouldn't set the resume aside and not give an interview at all. To answer your question, no I wouldn't quit. I actually took a pay cut to work where I currently am because I thought I would enjoy the job more. (And I do.) I don't ever "expect" a bonus. Banking on a bonus I think is a really bad idea. You should get what you consider is a fair wage rather than expect a bonus to make up for whatever you think is lacking. People should be wary of companies that offer a salary that is below market average but promise bonuses or "quick pay raises". They often don't materialize.

aaronblohowiak 18y ago

How short is "too quickly" ?

Flemlord 18y ago
If the last three jobs were held <2 years.
- mrtron 18y ago
  This stat is accurate for applying >10 years ago. Never stay at a crappy job so it appears 'better' on your resume, when I am hiring I look only at what you worked on. Many candidates of higher caliber I interviewed bounced around.
  - sho 18y ago
    Exactly right. The employer who rejected anyone who moved around a lot (usually 12 to 18 months, with a maximum stay anywhere of around 2 years) would exclude pretty much all the best people I know. I suppose it depends what you're looking for. A lawyer firm or family medical practise might be looking for long term stability for the sake of their patients/clients. But for programming, and I assume that most of us on "hacker news" are programmers, you want passion, initiative and the ability to actually get things done. It's a completely natural cycle to arrive somewhere new with a new project, full of passion, and to put a lot of work into it. After a while, around 18 months for me, you're sick of it and ready to move on. There is no point, either for you or the company, at pretending otherwise and sticking around just to clock up the hours. And what you really don't want is the "lifer" mentality. The role of "permanent full time worker" is retrograde and disappearing fast. Perhaps it's better to cast out the concept entirely and start thinking purely in terms of contracts. I suspect that a large number of the best programmers already think like this and companies that can't adapt to that will simply miss out.

smokinn 18y ago

What about my situation? I got a job right out of school and worked so much overtime I more or less burnt out on it. When they showed me graphs of how much money I made them and didn't even bother with a Christmas bonus I quit. The company I then went to more or less lied about what I was actually going to do so I quit there too. (Even though they were paying me twice the amount I was previously making.) I only lasted 9 months at the first job and 6 months at the second. I'm on my third job now (thankfully I like this one so I'll be here hopefully for a while) and I graduated less than 2 years ago. I suppose my resume would make me look like a job hopper so you'd hold that against me?

Flemlord 18y ago
Yes, I would. Would you quit the first time you thought you deserved a bonus and didn't get one? You may be a good fit, but having three jobs in two years makes me nervous. Another warning sign we look for is when somebody trashes their old company. In every case where that happened and we made the hire, that person was trashing our company within six months.
- smokinn 18y ago
  Thanks, I know it makes sense from an employer perspective, I just wanted to point out that there are exceptions so while I can understand reluctance in the interview I personally wouldn't set the resume aside and not give an interview at all. To answer your question, no I wouldn't quit. I actually took a pay cut to work where I currently am because I thought I would enjoy the job more. (And I do.) I don't ever "expect" a bonus. Banking on a bonus I think is a really bad idea. You should get what you consider is a fair wage rather than expect a bonus to make up for whatever you think is lacking. People should be wary of companies that offer a salary that is below market average but promise bonuses or "quick pay raises". They often don't materialize.