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I'd really prefer not to learn the "don't put evil assholes in power" lesson the way Japan and Germany did. They're basically brand-new countries.
by ceejayoz 2mo ago
I'd really prefer not to learn the "don't put evil assholes in power" lesson the way Japan and Germany did.
They're basically brand-new countries.
- john_strinlai 2mo agoi hope that it is obvious i am not saying that... my point was that a couple generations is usually enough to heal most animosity, assuming the offending events cease certainly in a thousand years, ~no one will remember.
- ceejayoz 2mo agoA couple generations plus a flattening of most major cities, and the deaths/imprisonment of the leadership responsible.
- john_strinlai 2mo agopunishment of those responsible, sure. i dont think flattening of most major cities is a requirement...
- ceejayoz 2mo ago> i dont think flattening of most major cities is a requirement... Both of your chosen examples went through exactly that as part of their reputational change.
- john_strinlai 2mo agoi can go dig up other examples of countries that did bad things which are forgiven now, if you'd like.
- ceejayoz 2mo agoLike the Confederacy? Wait, bad example.
- john_strinlai 2mo agojust wondering, do you want the US to be hated "forever"? or what is it that you are arguing for? i thought it was a fairly obvious statement that over the thousands of years of history, many bad things have been done, but after several generations, we are able to heal. if you think that in the year 2200, the world will still hate the US because of today, i disagree. the year 2500? i doubt the people of that time, excepting a few ancient historians, will even know it happened. "forever" is a long time.
- ceejayoz 2mo ago> do you want the US to be hated "forever"? No. What I want and what I get don't always match up. The US will suffer from this era on the international stage for generations, in a completely self-inflicted blow. Its continued existence as the present-day USA is by no means guaranteed, either. Present-day Germany isn't Nazi Germany; I certainly hope people will hate Nazi Germany forever.
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- john_strinlai 2mo ago>The US will suffer from this era on the international stage for generations, this is what i said earlier... generations? sure. forever? no. so i guess we agree.
- yifanl 2mo agoYou don't get to decide how you're hated is the point.
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- bcrosby95 2mo agoThe second half never happened to Japans leaders despite being responsible for many atrocities in the region at the time.
- ceejayoz 2mo agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hideki_Tojo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hideki_Tojo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Military_Tribunal_for_the_Far_East https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Military_Tribuna...
- krapp 2mo agoJapan and Germany made it illegal to put the evil assholes in power. The US will do no such thing, we're going to keep voting for the evil assholes and every attempt we make at progress will simply be undermined and undone. I don't see a way out of this without a fundamental transformation of the US. At the very least that looks like a Constitutional convention, repeal of FPTP and the electoral college, maybe even changing to a parliamentary system without a powerful executive. At worst it looks like civil war. Nothing on a lesser scale than than that is going to suffice. Expecting to simply return to normal with a vote for blue and pretend this never happened isn't going to work.