3 ms·

But the current situation is I can take two devices with a USB C connector, connect them with a USB c cable, and they won’t work. Is that really better?

by maccard 2mo ago

jaymmartin 2mo ago
Yes. This is the worst case scenario: You don't have the required cable. In an alternative world with no unified connector, you also likely don't have the required cable. The result is the same. It's just that in this world, the worst case scenario happens a lot less. There is often a fallback when you don't have the required cable and you get some functionality. But, most people most of the time the cable they have does what is needed.
- maccard 2mo ago
  In the alternative world I use the cable that came with the device and I can tell apart from the other 10 black cables.
  - jaymmartin 2mo ago
    You can still use the cable that came with the device. Are there a lot of manufacturers who are shipping cables that are not sufficient for their device? And if the complaint is that cables are the same color, can they not be labeled? Everyone who wants different cables should just treat their USB-C cables as different cables. They get everything they want and the people who want the benefits of mixing cables (at the cost of them sometimes not working) can get what they want.
    - maccard 2mo ago
      I think you’re technically right, but the point of the connector is to indicate what it will work with. It’s all well and good until you grab one of the white or black cables and put the wrong one bacj. > they get everything they want No, we get a bunch of cables which share a connector that pretend they’re interconnectable when they’re not. At a glance, my phone, MacBook and toothbrush cables are identical. I don’t want have to tell my wife or anyone who visits “don’t use the second charger from he left”
pimterry 2mo ago
In almost all cases they will work, just slowly. There's always some power, and almost always some data (power-without-data cables exist, but they're very rare, mostly a specialist security thing). If the power isn't enough to power a device, that's annoying, but it's strictly better than when we had a unique power cable per-device. We've replaced "carry a charger per device" with "carry one charger for your highest power device, and it can do everything else too". And even with just a low-power cable you can usually trickle-charge overnight or something. The only optional feature you'll run into that may or may not work at all is monitor support. Would it be better to have a whole different USB-C2 spec which requires display support (and so is significantly more expensive)? If the connector is the same you have the same problem (it's just labelling) and if it's not that sounds like you've just invented display cables which your monitor almost certainly supports today anyway.
- maccard 2mo ago
  You’re somewhat underplaying it - plugging a cheapo random Chinese knock off cable into my MacBook is effectively useless. Plugging a 480Mb cable into a thunderbolt dock is effectively useless. > The only optional feature you'll run into that may or may not work at all is monitor support. Between charging, data transfer and monitors we’re now at the three primary uses for USB that may or may not work at their advertised performance depending on what combination of devices you use and what connector you use. And to be clear, trickle charging a high power device is “degraded” in the same way that GitHub was “degraded” yesterday. Yes I do think a different spec is the right solution - why should the charging port for my electric toothbrush accept a cable that’s plugged into a Nintendo switch dock on the other end? Something like USB 3 MicroB is an example of how a “high featured” device can share with the power delivery. > you've just invented display cables which your monitor almost certainly supports today anyway. Which my laptop doesn’t have a port for anymore!

But the current situation is I can take two devices with a USB C connector, connect them with a USB c cable, and they won’t work. Is that really better?

by maccard 2mo ago

But the current situation is I can take two devices with a USB C connector, connect them with a USB c cable, and they won’t work. Is that really better?

jaymmartin 2mo ago

Yes. This is the worst case scenario: You don't have the required cable. In an alternative world with no unified connector, you also likely don't have the required cable. The result is the same. It's just that in this world, the worst case scenario happens a lot less. There is often a fallback when you don't have the required cable and you get some functionality. But, most people most of the time the cable they have does what is needed.

maccard 2mo ago
In the alternative world I use the cable that came with the device and I can tell apart from the other 10 black cables.
- jaymmartin 2mo ago
  You can still use the cable that came with the device. Are there a lot of manufacturers who are shipping cables that are not sufficient for their device? And if the complaint is that cables are the same color, can they not be labeled? Everyone who wants different cables should just treat their USB-C cables as different cables. They get everything they want and the people who want the benefits of mixing cables (at the cost of them sometimes not working) can get what they want.
  - maccard 2mo ago
    I think you’re technically right, but the point of the connector is to indicate what it will work with. It’s all well and good until you grab one of the white or black cables and put the wrong one bacj. > they get everything they want No, we get a bunch of cables which share a connector that pretend they’re interconnectable when they’re not. At a glance, my phone, MacBook and toothbrush cables are identical. I don’t want have to tell my wife or anyone who visits “don’t use the second charger from he left”

pimterry 2mo ago

In almost all cases they will work, just slowly. There's always some power, and almost always some data (power-without-data cables exist, but they're very rare, mostly a specialist security thing). If the power isn't enough to power a device, that's annoying, but it's strictly better than when we had a unique power cable per-device. We've replaced "carry a charger per device" with "carry one charger for your highest power device, and it can do everything else too". And even with just a low-power cable you can usually trickle-charge overnight or something. The only optional feature you'll run into that may or may not work at all is monitor support. Would it be better to have a whole different USB-C2 spec which requires display support (and so is significantly more expensive)? If the connector is the same you have the same problem (it's just labelling) and if it's not that sounds like you've just invented display cables which your monitor almost certainly supports today anyway.

maccard 2mo ago
You’re somewhat underplaying it - plugging a cheapo random Chinese knock off cable into my MacBook is effectively useless. Plugging a 480Mb cable into a thunderbolt dock is effectively useless. > The only optional feature you'll run into that may or may not work at all is monitor support. Between charging, data transfer and monitors we’re now at the three primary uses for USB that may or may not work at their advertised performance depending on what combination of devices you use and what connector you use. And to be clear, trickle charging a high power device is “degraded” in the same way that GitHub was “degraded” yesterday. Yes I do think a different spec is the right solution - why should the charging port for my electric toothbrush accept a cable that’s plugged into a Nintendo switch dock on the other end? Something like USB 3 MicroB is an example of how a “high featured” device can share with the power delivery. > you've just invented display cables which your monitor almost certainly supports today anyway. Which my laptop doesn’t have a port for anymore!