4 ms·

Supplement w/ geothermal?

seb1204 2mo ago
Yes, this
perpetuallunch 2mo ago
Geothermal works in enough areas (geographies) for it to be an entertaining talking point in niche forums like this one. But not much else. Earth is an incredibly poor heat conductor, as evidenced by the fact that you don’t have to dig very far, maybe a foot or four, and it’s a fairly constant 14 degrees C, and yet the core is molten lava (rock) and has been that way for billions of years predominantly from latent heat from the planets formation. So you have to be very careful with heat exchange, lest you exceed the ability of the earth to conduct heat through the rock surrounding the boreholes. Drilling deep boreholes is difficult as the rock becomes more like plasticine as it approaches temperatures where usefully higher temperatures occur.
- defrost 2mo ago
  "Artificial" geothermal works well enough to store energy from sunlight months for use during colder months. Artificial in the sense of using solar energy (direct or electric) to heat mass insulated by earth and later extracting that heat to use (directly in district heating, or indirectly via heat -> electric conversion).
  - perpetuallunch 2mo ago
    Show me an example where this is being used in the real word, at scale, in a cost effective manner. It’s not even a good idea. Water has a greater capacity to store heat than rocks and dirt.
    - anenefan 2mo ago
      I'm obviously going to ignore the conditional goal posts at scale and cost effective ... burgeoning technology does not typically land with all the problems ironed out or have economy of scale. I used my searchfoo and Sage Industries lands in more of the top results [1] [2] (may require careful attention to distinguish between natural and artificial geothermal) As well as an interview [youtube] There's obviously different methods that have been employed / tried by other companies given [3] which outlines different methods of storage also includes some simple graphics ... [1] https://www.aveva.com/en/our-industrial-life/type/article/turning-abandoned-oil-wells-into-energy-storage/ https://www.aveva.com/en/our-industrial-life/type/article/tu... [2] https://new.abb.com/news/detail/123160/abb-and-sage-geosystems-unearth-geothermal-energy-opportunities https://new.abb.com/news/detail/123160/abb-and-sage-geosyste... [youtube] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSt-MiiX0Fg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSt-MiiX0Fg (Transmission 43 mins Geothermal: Turning Oil Wells Into Energy Storage - Sage Geosystems) [podcast] [3] https://www.energy.gov/hgeo/geothermal/geothermal-energy-storage https://www.energy.gov/hgeo/geothermal/geothermal-energy-sto...
    - defrost 2mo ago
      > real word, at scale, in a cost effective manner. - https://web.archive.org/web/20151208232728/http://ing.dk/artikel/verdens-stoerste-damvarmelager-indviet-i-vojens-176776 https://web.archive.org/web/20151208232728/http://ing.dk/art... from [2015 - now( ... (still operating) for one example. > Water has a greater capacity to store heat than rocks and dirt. Weirdly all three fall under the description used ( "mass" ) and yet none of the three you mentioned are molten salt or silicon which perform even better than water. If the point you're making is that you've made little effort to think this through or look to where this has been used, is being used, or at pilot plants going to longer time scales then congratulations, you've convinced me.

Yes, this

Geothermal works in enough areas (geographies) for it to be an entertaining talking point in niche forums like this one. But not much else. Earth is an incredibly poor heat conductor, as evidenced by the fact that you don’t have to dig very far, maybe a foot or four, and it’s a fairly constant 14 degrees C, and yet the core is molten lava (rock) and has been that way for billions of years predominantly from latent heat from the planets formation. So you have to be very careful with heat exchange, lest you exceed the ability of the earth to conduct heat through the rock surrounding the boreholes. Drilling deep boreholes is difficult as the rock becomes more like plasticine as it approaches temperatures where usefully higher temperatures occur.

defrost 2mo ago
"Artificial" geothermal works well enough to store energy from sunlight months for use during colder months. Artificial in the sense of using solar energy (direct or electric) to heat mass insulated by earth and later extracting that heat to use (directly in district heating, or indirectly via heat -> electric conversion).
- perpetuallunch 2mo ago
  Show me an example where this is being used in the real word, at scale, in a cost effective manner. It’s not even a good idea. Water has a greater capacity to store heat than rocks and dirt.
  - anenefan 2mo ago
    I'm obviously going to ignore the conditional goal posts at scale and cost effective ... burgeoning technology does not typically land with all the problems ironed out or have economy of scale. I used my searchfoo and Sage Industries lands in more of the top results [1] [2] (may require careful attention to distinguish between natural and artificial geothermal) As well as an interview [youtube] There's obviously different methods that have been employed / tried by other companies given [3] which outlines different methods of storage also includes some simple graphics ... [1] https://www.aveva.com/en/our-industrial-life/type/article/turning-abandoned-oil-wells-into-energy-storage/ https://www.aveva.com/en/our-industrial-life/type/article/tu... [2] https://new.abb.com/news/detail/123160/abb-and-sage-geosystems-unearth-geothermal-energy-opportunities https://new.abb.com/news/detail/123160/abb-and-sage-geosyste... [youtube] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSt-MiiX0Fg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSt-MiiX0Fg (Transmission 43 mins Geothermal: Turning Oil Wells Into Energy Storage - Sage Geosystems) [podcast] [3] https://www.energy.gov/hgeo/geothermal/geothermal-energy-storage https://www.energy.gov/hgeo/geothermal/geothermal-energy-sto...
  - defrost 2mo ago
    > real word, at scale, in a cost effective manner. - https://web.archive.org/web/20151208232728/http://ing.dk/artikel/verdens-stoerste-damvarmelager-indviet-i-vojens-176776 https://web.archive.org/web/20151208232728/http://ing.dk/art... from [2015 - now( ... (still operating) for one example. > Water has a greater capacity to store heat than rocks and dirt. Weirdly all three fall under the description used ( "mass" ) and yet none of the three you mentioned are molten salt or silicon which perform even better than water. If the point you're making is that you've made little effort to think this through or look to where this has been used, is being used, or at pilot plants going to longer time scales then congratulations, you've convinced me.