3 ms·

>A real product has real users, a real market and solves real problems. This misses the mark. A product is something which can be exchanged with others, trans

>A real product has real users, a real market and solves real problems. This misses the mark. A product is something which can be exchanged with others, transferred into their agency, for them to own and use according to their free will. They don't have to use it or indeed 'be a user' - it is up to them whether or not utility is derived. The only requirement is that it is exchangeable and that agency has been transferred in such a manner that all parties involved in the exchange are satisfied with the transfer of agency. A project is some activity which has an expectation of changing state over time. Project management means projecting the scope and sphere of that activity into the future, in order to change its state in such a way, hopefully, that something exchangeable is produced. Product management means, making sure a satisfactory exchange occurs between the creator of a product and its new owner. So many people get this wrong. It is not a product if it's a project. It is only a product once it has been exchanged with another entity for their purposes. You can have many, many projects which will never become products, because they won't be exchanged with others. You can have products which are valued by their owner in ways unintended by their creators. The value and utility is arbitrary to whether or not something is a product - the only requirement for something to become a product is that it is exchanged. Successful product(S) are exchanged at scale. A single product can be very successful if the scale of that exchange is high. A lot of products can be very successful if the number of exchanges is great. Until the exchange occurs, it's not a product. It's a resource. Inventory. Side projects become products only once they are exchanged. There really are plenty of Google analogs. There are plenty of chatbot analogs. Any one of us can recreate Instagram or X. These competitive analogs simply have not become products, because they have not been exchanged. Products which harness human collectivity have the problem of not being exchanged at scale until the collective decides to participate in the exchange, i.e. recommend their friends sign up to join them. The problem with easily started new side projects is that they are not so easily exchanged at sufficient scale.

JSR_FDED 3mo ago
Not sure I understand the need for the exchange at scale. If I build a tool that lets a single person automate a tedious calculation then as long as they can depend on me maintaining it then it’s a product as far as I’m concerned.
- MomsAVoxell 3mo ago
  Yes, I guess I wasn't clear: it's a product if it is exchanged - at all. At any scale. (There was a missing 'any' in my original statement.) You can sell a single product for an enormous price, you can sell 1,000 products at a low price - the only thing that matters is that the two parties agree to conduct the exchange at any scale and, most importantly, that it actually occurs. Common to both high-end scale and low-end scale scenarios, is that the exchange occurred and all parties agree to it. That's the only thing that makes something a product - the exchange.
  - JSR_FDED 3mo ago
    Not sure how that’s helpful in the context of the question the article poses: What is the difference between a vibe coded thing and a “real” product?
    - MomsAVoxell 3mo ago
      It doesn’t matter one bit how you made it, as long as you’ve got someone who is willing to exchange with you, for it. That is the only factor in determining whether something is a product or not. Nobody wants to know how the sausage is made. Vibe coding is just sausage-making.
    - saint-evan 3mo ago
      Not sure how you're missing it. He's making a distinction between the concept of a Project and a Product. I agree with the distinction and he seems to be saying that the author has the wrong concept of what a product is but to answer your parent comment is saying that there's no difference between a vibe coded thing and a 'real' product so long as there has been some satisfactory transfer of agency and an exchange between user and product creator at any scale. So he's essentially saying that the author may be conflating vibe coded PROJECT (with a vibe coded PRODUCT) and that if so comparing a vibe coded PROJECT with any 'real' (whatever that means) product is an unfair comparison and on the flip side if they're comparing vive coded PRODUCT with a real PRODUCT then they're one and the same thing from the perspective that there was an transfer of agency and utility has been exchanged between user and product creator. I happen to agree with parent comment. It's an airtight argument that it doesn't matter how yu made it. The distinction between vibe coded and 'real' product is fuzzy at best. The real distinction lies between a PROJECT and a PRODUCT.

JSR_FDED 3mo ago

Not sure I understand the need for the exchange at scale. If I build a tool that lets a single person automate a tedious calculation then as long as they can depend on me maintaining it then it’s a product as far as I’m concerned.

MomsAVoxell 3mo ago
Yes, I guess I wasn't clear: it's a product if it is exchanged - at all. At any scale. (There was a missing 'any' in my original statement.) You can sell a single product for an enormous price, you can sell 1,000 products at a low price - the only thing that matters is that the two parties agree to conduct the exchange at any scale and, most importantly, that it actually occurs. Common to both high-end scale and low-end scale scenarios, is that the exchange occurred and all parties agree to it. That's the only thing that makes something a product - the exchange.
- JSR_FDED 3mo ago
  Not sure how that’s helpful in the context of the question the article poses: What is the difference between a vibe coded thing and a “real” product?
  - MomsAVoxell 3mo ago
    It doesn’t matter one bit how you made it, as long as you’ve got someone who is willing to exchange with you, for it. That is the only factor in determining whether something is a product or not. Nobody wants to know how the sausage is made. Vibe coding is just sausage-making.
  - saint-evan 3mo ago
    Not sure how you're missing it. He's making a distinction between the concept of a Project and a Product. I agree with the distinction and he seems to be saying that the author has the wrong concept of what a product is but to answer your parent comment is saying that there's no difference between a vibe coded thing and a 'real' product so long as there has been some satisfactory transfer of agency and an exchange between user and product creator at any scale. So he's essentially saying that the author may be conflating vibe coded PROJECT (with a vibe coded PRODUCT) and that if so comparing a vibe coded PROJECT with any 'real' (whatever that means) product is an unfair comparison and on the flip side if they're comparing vive coded PRODUCT with a real PRODUCT then they're one and the same thing from the perspective that there was an transfer of agency and utility has been exchanged between user and product creator. I happen to agree with parent comment. It's an airtight argument that it doesn't matter how yu made it. The distinction between vibe coded and 'real' product is fuzzy at best. The real distinction lies between a PROJECT and a PRODUCT.