4 ms·

With the amount of effort that the executive branch took in order to get this legislation, even going as far as attempting to invoke the states secret privilege

by halviti 14y ago

With the amount of effort that the executive branch took in order to get this legislation, even going as far as attempting to invoke the states secret privilege [1], I wonder what sort of public outcry it would take to actually get this unconstitutional legislation off the books. Furthermore, if it could be done, I wonder what would become of the 10's of billions of dollars in facilities and equipment that have been squandered by the government to spy on its own people in the name of freedom. I would love to hear ideas on how we can get this message out to the average population, and actually get them to care about it. Sadly, I think a lot of people don't care. Which is almost more worrying than the legislation itself. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_secrets_privilege#AT.26T_and_NSA_wire-tap_case http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_secrets_privilege#AT.26T_...

w1ntermute 14y ago
In my experience, the sad truth has been that most average people have responded to this issue by saying that they have nothing to hide and don't mind since it helps catch terrorists. Normally, you could expect Republicans to oppose a big government program like this, but, as we all know, as soon as you say the word "terrorist", they're all suddenly in favor of big government and big spending.
- Shivetya 14y ago
  Sadder still, the press would be all over this if the Republicans were pushing it, instead they are complacent. As a conservative I can say that in my experience that Republicans are rarely against big government. In the recent election many I know had to hold their nose as neither Romney nor Ryan were true conservatives.
  - deleted 14y ago
    [deleted]
- chimeracoder 14y ago
  > Normally, you could expect Republicans to oppose a big government program like this, but, as we all know, as soon as you say the word "terrorist", they're all suddenly in favor of big government and big spending. It works on both sides of the aisle. I'm too embarrassed to count how many progressives I know who opposed the FISA wiretaps, the PATRIOT act, and Gitmo under Bush, yet bent over backwards to find ways to excuse Obama for taking each of those policies even further.
  - rayiner 14y ago
    So as a Democrat whose opinions have evolved on the subject, it's not just blind partisanship. A lot of the fear-mongering about the PATRIOT Act that was waved around in 2001 just hasn't come to pass, and it has been watered down over time. The same thing with Guantanamo. The Supreme Court pretty much smacked down the Executive between 2004-2008, and the fears never materialized. This is the list of defense attorneys for the Guantanamo Bay detainees: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guantanamo_Bay_attorneys#Guantanamo_detainees.27_defense_attorneys http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guantanamo_Bay_attorneys#Guanta.... This isn't a big scary shadowy thing anymore--the place is crawling with lawyers now.
    - graue 14y ago
      Scroll up a bit on that same page, and it sounds like there are serious abuses.
    - flyinRyan 14y ago
      >A lot of the fear-mongering about the PATRIOT Act that was waved around in 2001 just hasn't come to pass What? The PATRIOT act has almost exclusively been used for non-terrorist cases. I.e. we were lied to about what it was for. And if you think how Gitmo has been used "wasn't that bad" I'd like to know what would need to happen for you to think it actually was bad.

by halviti 14y ago

w1ntermute 14y ago

In my experience, the sad truth has been that most average people have responded to this issue by saying that they have nothing to hide and don't mind since it helps catch terrorists. Normally, you could expect Republicans to oppose a big government program like this, but, as we all know, as soon as you say the word "terrorist", they're all suddenly in favor of big government and big spending.

Shivetya 14y ago
Sadder still, the press would be all over this if the Republicans were pushing it, instead they are complacent. As a conservative I can say that in my experience that Republicans are rarely against big government. In the recent election many I know had to hold their nose as neither Romney nor Ryan were true conservatives.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
chimeracoder 14y ago
> Normally, you could expect Republicans to oppose a big government program like this, but, as we all know, as soon as you say the word "terrorist", they're all suddenly in favor of big government and big spending. It works on both sides of the aisle. I'm too embarrassed to count how many progressives I know who opposed the FISA wiretaps, the PATRIOT act, and Gitmo under Bush, yet bent over backwards to find ways to excuse Obama for taking each of those policies even further.
- rayiner 14y ago
  So as a Democrat whose opinions have evolved on the subject, it's not just blind partisanship. A lot of the fear-mongering about the PATRIOT Act that was waved around in 2001 just hasn't come to pass, and it has been watered down over time. The same thing with Guantanamo. The Supreme Court pretty much smacked down the Executive between 2004-2008, and the fears never materialized. This is the list of defense attorneys for the Guantanamo Bay detainees: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guantanamo_Bay_attorneys#Guantanamo_detainees.27_defense_attorneys http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guantanamo_Bay_attorneys#Guanta.... This isn't a big scary shadowy thing anymore--the place is crawling with lawyers now.
  - graue 14y ago
    Scroll up a bit on that same page, and it sounds like there are serious abuses.
  - flyinRyan 14y ago
    >A lot of the fear-mongering about the PATRIOT Act that was waved around in 2001 just hasn't come to pass What? The PATRIOT act has almost exclusively been used for non-terrorist cases. I.e. we were lied to about what it was for. And if you think how Gitmo has been used "wasn't that bad" I'd like to know what would need to happen for you to think it actually was bad.