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Here's a question I have for all the predictable "I don't need a union" SWEs out there: if unions were so bad, why do companies literally spend millions and bre

by jmyeet 2mo ago

Here's a question I have for all the predictable "I don't need a union" SWEs out there: if unions were so bad, why do companies literally spend millions and break the law to make sure they don't happen? To borrow a George RR Martin'ism, there are a lot of children of summer of this space that have only experienced the 2010s, which were an unprecedented boom in tech hiring. Even now in permanent layoff culture they've been anchored to the 2010s as being "normal" and this is "abnormal". You are incorrect. What's going on now is normal and companies are aggressively working to claw back the compensation gains of the last 1-2 decades. A few key AI people are making insane money but I assure you that this is temporary too. You do not have negotiating power with a trillion dollar company. If you withhold they labor, it's no big deal. If they withhold your paycheck, you and your family are at risk of homelessness, bankruptcy and death. These are not equal positions. The very idea that unions will reduce your compensation is itself propaganda created by decades of McKinsey "research", billionaire-backed think tanks and money in politics as well as a healthy dose of the Red Scare. Many of the benefits you take for granted like weekends, PTO and sick pay only exist because people died for those benefits. Also, look at any industry and union employees get paid more than non-union employees. The Big Three automakers pay more than Tesla does, for example. Permanent layoff culture exists to disrupt your life, reduce your compensation and make you do more unpaid work. Unions would prevent that. Lastly, I have to note, it's pretty interesting that this submission got killed on HN manually. 2 hours, 60 votes and that would be on the front page. I went through the top 500+ submissions and couldn't find it. It's still on new but nowhere on the main feed. Interesting. That in itself is evidence that VCs don't want unions.

johnnyanmac 2mo ago
I definitely see a lot of "but tech (and I) am special, they need us" going on here. Clearly those employees have not had a significant layoff, or are running startups themselves (which isn't surprising at all given the site). And they haven't looked down at the current market for new grads, nor at the general state of the job market in general. I still regularly see other postings elsewhere on someone saying to the tune of "I just got laid off after 5+ years at [Company]. What is happening to the job market?". (Un)fortunately, being a laid off game dev making ends meet freelancing has given me a lot of time to learn economics. >Permanent layoff culture exists to disrupt your life, reduce your compensation and make you do more unpaid work. Unions would prevent that. And extended exposure to this culture is probably why my sector is much more receptive to unions. We've been in such an environment even in the "good times". It does suck not knowing if you'll have a job next week. At least contract work always has an end date and you simply bet on not having it continue. >I have to note, it's pretty interesting that this submission got killed on HN manually. 2 hours, 60 votes and that would be on the front page. I went through the top 500+ submissions and couldn't find i That behavior as of late is why I tend to just do a blank query on search and skim through the highest voted pages in 24 hours or a week. Helps me find blind spots like this that didn't make the front page.
pandaman 2mo ago
How does this: >You do not have negotiating power with a trillion dollar company. If you withhold they labor, it's no big deal. If they withhold your paycheck, you and your family are at risk of homelessness, bankruptcy and death. These are not equal positions. coexist with this: > What's going on now is normal and companies are aggressively working to claw back the compensation gains of the last 1-2 decades. in your head? Where did the gains the companies are clawing back come from if negotiation is impossible? Do you think there were SWE unions before 2010 which made these gains and disappeared without a trace? As for your question - it's pretty simple, companies bust unions because unions negatively affect their business. It does not follow that unions are good for their members and if your comp comes from the business equity it means it's bad for you.
AlexandrB 2mo ago
> Here's a question I have for all the predictable "I don't need a union" SWEs out there: if unions were so bad, why do companies literally spend millions and break the law to make sure they don't happen? The enemy of my enemy is not necessarily my friend. It's possible to unions to make everyone worse off, not just the employer. I'm not saying that's always the case, but this is not a good argument.

by jmyeet 2mo ago

johnnyanmac 2mo ago

I definitely see a lot of "but tech (and I) am special, they need us" going on here. Clearly those employees have not had a significant layoff, or are running startups themselves (which isn't surprising at all given the site). And they haven't looked down at the current market for new grads, nor at the general state of the job market in general. I still regularly see other postings elsewhere on someone saying to the tune of "I just got laid off after 5+ years at [Company]. What is happening to the job market?". (Un)fortunately, being a laid off game dev making ends meet freelancing has given me a lot of time to learn economics. >Permanent layoff culture exists to disrupt your life, reduce your compensation and make you do more unpaid work. Unions would prevent that. And extended exposure to this culture is probably why my sector is much more receptive to unions. We've been in such an environment even in the "good times". It does suck not knowing if you'll have a job next week. At least contract work always has an end date and you simply bet on not having it continue. >I have to note, it's pretty interesting that this submission got killed on HN manually. 2 hours, 60 votes and that would be on the front page. I went through the top 500+ submissions and couldn't find i That behavior as of late is why I tend to just do a blank query on search and skim through the highest voted pages in 24 hours or a week. Helps me find blind spots like this that didn't make the front page.

pandaman 2mo ago

How does this: >You do not have negotiating power with a trillion dollar company. If you withhold they labor, it's no big deal. If they withhold your paycheck, you and your family are at risk of homelessness, bankruptcy and death. These are not equal positions. coexist with this: > What's going on now is normal and companies are aggressively working to claw back the compensation gains of the last 1-2 decades. in your head? Where did the gains the companies are clawing back come from if negotiation is impossible? Do you think there were SWE unions before 2010 which made these gains and disappeared without a trace? As for your question - it's pretty simple, companies bust unions because unions negatively affect their business. It does not follow that unions are good for their members and if your comp comes from the business equity it means it's bad for you.

AlexandrB 2mo ago

> Here's a question I have for all the predictable "I don't need a union" SWEs out there: if unions were so bad, why do companies literally spend millions and break the law to make sure they don't happen? The enemy of my enemy is not necessarily my friend. It's possible to unions to make everyone worse off, not just the employer. I'm not saying that's always the case, but this is not a good argument.