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Not entirely sure what that has to do with what I was saying? Unless you're trying to provide an example of a lack of critical thinking? China is an excellent e

Not entirely sure what that has to do with what I was saying? Unless you're trying to provide an example of a lack of critical thinking? China is an excellent example, while they have moved to a state managed capitalist market style economy now (one in which you get the best of both worlds, the average person is ground under the wheels of capitalism at the direction of the state), their flavour of socialism was incredibly effective at modernisation. Whether you consider that conceptually good or bad is personal (healthcare, literacy, poverty uplift, etc vs the many negative externalities of industrialisation), but you can't say it wasn't effective.

mytailorisrich 2mo ago
The point is that they became effective when they abandoned socialism as the economic doctrine. So there is no such thing as "their flavour of socialism". The 20th century showed that socialism does not work and fails dramatically. As for healthcare, unfortunately that has been a collateral victim of this. Benefits used to be tied to the "work unit" in a very traditional socialist style (soviet, commune, etc) but this disappeared when socialism was abandoned and now either you can pay or you die.
- ozlikethewizard 2mo ago
  This is just provable false though, China's economic revolution, for better or worse, happened under Mao. Humanitarian crisis were aplently, (but is that really any different from capitalist states, honduras anyone?), but the intended goal of rapid industrilisation and modernisation was successful. I'm not trying to white wash how bad of a humanitarian crisis the great leap forward was, but China is a manufacturing giant today because of the ground work laid down by Mao's reforms. To argue that socialism served no economic purpose is just false.
  - mytailorisrich 2mo ago
    What? No, the economy was destroyed at the time of Mao's death and it was the market-oriented reforms that came afterwards that started the economic boom. HN always manages to produce extra strange posts.

mytailorisrich 2mo ago

The point is that they became effective when they abandoned socialism as the economic doctrine. So there is no such thing as "their flavour of socialism". The 20th century showed that socialism does not work and fails dramatically. As for healthcare, unfortunately that has been a collateral victim of this. Benefits used to be tied to the "work unit" in a very traditional socialist style (soviet, commune, etc) but this disappeared when socialism was abandoned and now either you can pay or you die.

ozlikethewizard 2mo ago
This is just provable false though, China's economic revolution, for better or worse, happened under Mao. Humanitarian crisis were aplently, (but is that really any different from capitalist states, honduras anyone?), but the intended goal of rapid industrilisation and modernisation was successful. I'm not trying to white wash how bad of a humanitarian crisis the great leap forward was, but China is a manufacturing giant today because of the ground work laid down by Mao's reforms. To argue that socialism served no economic purpose is just false.
- mytailorisrich 2mo ago
  What? No, the economy was destroyed at the time of Mao's death and it was the market-oriented reforms that came afterwards that started the economic boom. HN always manages to produce extra strange posts.