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The US is not really capitalist, it’s an oligarchy - a small number of people like Larry Ellison essentially control everything. It’s always been like that, ev

The US is not really capitalist, it’s an oligarchy - a small number of people like Larry Ellison essentially control everything. It’s always been like that, even going back to the 19th century and the robber barons of the gilded age

ozlikethewizard 2mo ago
That is the natural end state of capitalism though? Capital begets more capital, eventually concentrating power as far as possible. Sure you get upstarts here and there, particularly with technological innovation, but the trend is always consistent.
- ifwinterco 2mo ago
  Arguably the natural end state of every system to be honest. Power, money and influence were concentrated in the Soviet Union, they're concentrated in modern day China...
  - ozlikethewizard 2mo ago
    Wouldn't argue. I guess the difference is philosophical. Capitalism is designed to reach that end goal, the very nature of capital growth requires consolidation. Philosophically, both the USSRs & China's implementations of socialism were "intended" to be pathways to communism, where power is controlled communally. The fact that no country has managed to transition out of the socialist state into communism is a pretty damning indictment of it though, power corrupts in all it's forms.
lapcat 2mo ago
This was by design of the oligarchic founders, who were very skeptical of the majority, so it goes back to the 18th century too.
- ifwinterco 2mo ago
  To be fair the US has been an extremely successful country all things considered, so maybe they were onto something
  - lapcat 2mo ago
    At its founding, the United States and the founders themselves exploited slave labor, so I wouldn't be so quick to praise what they were onto. There's also the matter of ethnic cleansing the Native Americans.
jjav 2mo ago
> The US is not really capitalist, it’s an oligarchy - a small number of people like Larry Ellison essentially control everything. This oligarchy is the inevitable conclusion of capitalism, unless there are regulations in place to preserve competition. The last time the US had significant enforcement in this area was the early 80s (AT&T), so of course we have an oligarchy.

ozlikethewizard 2mo ago

That is the natural end state of capitalism though? Capital begets more capital, eventually concentrating power as far as possible. Sure you get upstarts here and there, particularly with technological innovation, but the trend is always consistent.

ifwinterco 2mo ago
Arguably the natural end state of every system to be honest. Power, money and influence were concentrated in the Soviet Union, they're concentrated in modern day China...
- ozlikethewizard 2mo ago
  Wouldn't argue. I guess the difference is philosophical. Capitalism is designed to reach that end goal, the very nature of capital growth requires consolidation. Philosophically, both the USSRs & China's implementations of socialism were "intended" to be pathways to communism, where power is controlled communally. The fact that no country has managed to transition out of the socialist state into communism is a pretty damning indictment of it though, power corrupts in all it's forms.

lapcat 2mo ago

This was by design of the oligarchic founders, who were very skeptical of the majority, so it goes back to the 18th century too.

ifwinterco 2mo ago
To be fair the US has been an extremely successful country all things considered, so maybe they were onto something
- lapcat 2mo ago
  At its founding, the United States and the founders themselves exploited slave labor, so I wouldn't be so quick to praise what they were onto. There's also the matter of ethnic cleansing the Native Americans.

jjav 2mo ago

> The US is not really capitalist, it’s an oligarchy - a small number of people like Larry Ellison essentially control everything. This oligarchy is the inevitable conclusion of capitalism, unless there are regulations in place to preserve competition. The last time the US had significant enforcement in this area was the early 80s (AT&T), so of course we have an oligarchy.