6 ms·

I remember when building more fiber could only be good. An awful lot of it sits in the ground lost, never used because it was the wrong type or in the wrong spo

I remember when building more fiber could only be good. An awful lot of it sits in the ground lost, never used because it was the wrong type or in the wrong spots, or otherwise pointless waste. Further, electicity price hikes seems like a bad prospect when inflation is already rampant. If you want a datacenter, offer your house for the space instead.

otterley 2mo ago
We can generate more electricity, but NIMBY types don't want to approve projects that would add capacity, either.
- sophacles 2mo ago
  It's always fun to watch AI zombies wrestle with the idea that sometimes the real humans have different priorities than they do. Usually people are against a lot of those power projects because those very same projects also seem to always raise rates and never deliver the promises of long-term lower rates.
  - otterley 2mo ago
    Success doesn’t always look like lower rates, particularly when demand is ever-growing (even when there aren’t new data centers). Success looks like rates not going up faster than inflation, and reliable delivery. I remember well the rolling blackouts in CA in the late 1990s and that sucked. Even the ones in Texas weren’t that long ago. Also, calling well-intended people with whom you disagree “zombies” is inappropriate. Take it elsewhere.
    - deleted 2mo ago
      [deleted]
    - sophacles 2mo ago
      Calling people with valid concerns insulting terms like nimby, and dismissing their reluctance to pay for your personal comfort is not well intentioned. A zombie is an unthinking creature blindly doing thr bidding of it's master. The AI zombies literally just spout the sam altman line without having ever once thought about the thing they are parroting. It's simple, the AI shit is hurting people, real people, right now. You might think that in the long term it makes everyones life better, but that doesn't change the short term. If you're OK with making large numbers of people suffer for your mild increase in comfort, and when you look in the mirror and really think your indifferent or happy about the damage you're helping inflict in swathes of the population... Well then you're a monster. Quit trying to force other people to take the consequences of your desires, and instead go get a datacenter in your back yard. Beg for generators to pollute your air first.
      - otterley 2mo ago
        > Calling people with valid concerns insulting terms like nimby, and dismissing their reluctance to pay for your personal comfort is not well intentioned. NIMBYs often refuse to accept practically any change, regardless of the benefits. This isn't limited to data centers being sited nearby: You see it in issues as petty as new pickleball courts. We also saw it for new power plants long before modern AI was a factor. This isn't new. I'm not saying you, personally, are a NIMBY, but it's undeniable that they exist. It's not personal, but I can tell it's touched a nerve. > The AI zombies literally just spout the sam altman line Well, I'm not one of those "zombies" you refer to, and disagreeing that new data centers are a huge problem, relative to all the other problems happening or threatened in the world, doesn't make me one. I'm not some uncritical fanboy, either; my record speaks for itself. > the AI shit is hurting people, real people, right now Back this up with facts. Raise the bar. > happy about the damage you're helping inflict What damage? How am I "helping" inflict said damage? Keep in mind that electricity generation need not pollute the atmosphere. We don't need to burn fossil fuels anymore. You're getting way too personal about this issue and need to back off.
        sophacles 2mo ago
        >NIMBYs often refuse to accept practically any change, regardless of the benefits. This isn't limited to data centers being sited nearby: You see it in issues as petty as new pickleball courts. We also saw it for new power plants long before modern AI was a factor. This isn't new. I'm not saying you, personally, are a NIMBY, but it's undeniable that they exist. It's not personal, but I can tell it's touched a nerve. No, see you're doing it again - there maybe a handfull of people opposed to all change. Usually it's some people don't want a particular thing, and a different group of people who don't want another thing. Dismissing them all as a single unified group of people opposed to all change is a disgusting contempt for everyone who disagrees with your comfort no matter what it may cost them personally. > Back this up with facts. Raise the bar. > etc We've seen thousands and thousands of jobs cut and people laid off for AI. Those people are bearing the cost of your personal desire for a little bit of comfort. We've seen towns lose electricity contracts and the residents forced to scramble and pay higher costs because of the possiblility of datacenter contracts. This hurts a lot of people who were already at the edge of being able to afford basic life. Sure, more generation may not need to pollute the atmosphere, but in the current moment it sure seems like the more generation in practice it is generators spewing exhaust into neighborhoods. This is happening right now, and it hurts people. Im not opposed to AI. I'm opposed to the rush to get there at the expense of people who aren't benefiting from it. I don't care if some handful of people don't realize profits immediately, or if some small percentage of people don't get to have a slightly easier job. The dismissal of these people's concerns as "just a made up group I call nimby's" being unreasonable is deplorable. It's an utter lack of regard for solving the problems in a reasonable way because you want your toy right now. The idea that we can add new datacenters because they aren't the biggest problem and only make the issues people are facing a little worse... well it's literally saying "lets make everything even worse for people since its already bad for them" and is just sick. Choosing to push for new toy factories right now that worsen peoples problems instead of an approach the makes the world better for others is in fact inflicting damage in the name of your amusement.

otterley 2mo ago

We can generate more electricity, but NIMBY types don't want to approve projects that would add capacity, either.

sophacles 2mo ago
It's always fun to watch AI zombies wrestle with the idea that sometimes the real humans have different priorities than they do. Usually people are against a lot of those power projects because those very same projects also seem to always raise rates and never deliver the promises of long-term lower rates.
- otterley 2mo ago
  Success doesn’t always look like lower rates, particularly when demand is ever-growing (even when there aren’t new data centers). Success looks like rates not going up faster than inflation, and reliable delivery. I remember well the rolling blackouts in CA in the late 1990s and that sucked. Even the ones in Texas weren’t that long ago. Also, calling well-intended people with whom you disagree “zombies” is inappropriate. Take it elsewhere.
  - deleted 2mo ago
    [deleted]
  - sophacles 2mo ago
    Calling people with valid concerns insulting terms like nimby, and dismissing their reluctance to pay for your personal comfort is not well intentioned. A zombie is an unthinking creature blindly doing thr bidding of it's master. The AI zombies literally just spout the sam altman line without having ever once thought about the thing they are parroting. It's simple, the AI shit is hurting people, real people, right now. You might think that in the long term it makes everyones life better, but that doesn't change the short term. If you're OK with making large numbers of people suffer for your mild increase in comfort, and when you look in the mirror and really think your indifferent or happy about the damage you're helping inflict in swathes of the population... Well then you're a monster. Quit trying to force other people to take the consequences of your desires, and instead go get a datacenter in your back yard. Beg for generators to pollute your air first.
    - otterley 2mo ago
      > Calling people with valid concerns insulting terms like nimby, and dismissing their reluctance to pay for your personal comfort is not well intentioned. NIMBYs often refuse to accept practically any change, regardless of the benefits. This isn't limited to data centers being sited nearby: You see it in issues as petty as new pickleball courts. We also saw it for new power plants long before modern AI was a factor. This isn't new. I'm not saying you, personally, are a NIMBY, but it's undeniable that they exist. It's not personal, but I can tell it's touched a nerve. > The AI zombies literally just spout the sam altman line Well, I'm not one of those "zombies" you refer to, and disagreeing that new data centers are a huge problem, relative to all the other problems happening or threatened in the world, doesn't make me one. I'm not some uncritical fanboy, either; my record speaks for itself. > the AI shit is hurting people, real people, right now Back this up with facts. Raise the bar. > happy about the damage you're helping inflict What damage? How am I "helping" inflict said damage? Keep in mind that electricity generation need not pollute the atmosphere. We don't need to burn fossil fuels anymore. You're getting way too personal about this issue and need to back off.
      - sophacles 2mo ago
        >NIMBYs often refuse to accept practically any change, regardless of the benefits. This isn't limited to data centers being sited nearby: You see it in issues as petty as new pickleball courts. We also saw it for new power plants long before modern AI was a factor. This isn't new. I'm not saying you, personally, are a NIMBY, but it's undeniable that they exist. It's not personal, but I can tell it's touched a nerve. No, see you're doing it again - there maybe a handfull of people opposed to all change. Usually it's some people don't want a particular thing, and a different group of people who don't want another thing. Dismissing them all as a single unified group of people opposed to all change is a disgusting contempt for everyone who disagrees with your comfort no matter what it may cost them personally. > Back this up with facts. Raise the bar. > etc We've seen thousands and thousands of jobs cut and people laid off for AI. Those people are bearing the cost of your personal desire for a little bit of comfort. We've seen towns lose electricity contracts and the residents forced to scramble and pay higher costs because of the possiblility of datacenter contracts. This hurts a lot of people who were already at the edge of being able to afford basic life. Sure, more generation may not need to pollute the atmosphere, but in the current moment it sure seems like the more generation in practice it is generators spewing exhaust into neighborhoods. This is happening right now, and it hurts people. Im not opposed to AI. I'm opposed to the rush to get there at the expense of people who aren't benefiting from it. I don't care if some handful of people don't realize profits immediately, or if some small percentage of people don't get to have a slightly easier job. The dismissal of these people's concerns as "just a made up group I call nimby's" being unreasonable is deplorable. It's an utter lack of regard for solving the problems in a reasonable way because you want your toy right now. The idea that we can add new datacenters because they aren't the biggest problem and only make the issues people are facing a little worse... well it's literally saying "lets make everything even worse for people since its already bad for them" and is just sick. Choosing to push for new toy factories right now that worsen peoples problems instead of an approach the makes the world better for others is in fact inflicting damage in the name of your amusement.