6 ms·
If only a few techies will be able to use Linux phone, banks will freely lock payment services access down to two platforms: ios and android. No way out, it's h
by zx8080 2mo ago
If only a few techies will be able to use Linux phone, banks will freely lock payment services access down to two platforms: ios and android. No way out, it's happening right now (in the name of "security", of course, but surprisingly it does not stop scam from happening).
Web will be locked down too, via secureboot stack browser integration (not -s, it's already actually monopolised to chrome only, as FF lives on full life support from Google).
Very sad how it was allowed to happen so easily.
- aceazzameen 2mo agoThere's still banks that have useful websites and physical locations.
- martheen 2mo agoEven when I'm still using a "classic" bank with card and a website that don't even use JS, I can't afford to use Windows Phone as my daily because it doesn't have the ride hailing apps used in my country. My current and previous office use proprietary app for clocking in and out, that are also only available on iOS and Android. Even public servants in my countries in all levels have to carry either of those two for location tracking.
- 9991 2mo agoTell your employer to provide a phone for clocking in and out. Obviously.
- 3RTB297 2mo agoBanks are only a part of the larger issue. Imagine traveling somewhere, and run through the things you'll need to work without tinkering. Camera, eSIM, GPS/maps, more "exotic" messaging apps that for some reason people use instead of Whatsapp. It seems like most Linux phones are barely suitable for someone that just goes home to work 99.999% of the time.
- fossman 2mo agoI don't have to imagine. I've already traveled internationally with the Librem 5 and it can do what I need it to do. Esim is supported with an adapter like those from JMP, but I use a local SIM card from that country. Whatsapp I never use, Signal and Delta Chat work fine.
- thelastgallon 2mo agoPerhaps we can think of this? Use a linux phone and an android phone as VM. For apps that are not immediately available as Linux apps, we continue to use the android VM. We continuously make better apps available on Linux and maybe, just maybe eventually switch completely to Linux phone.
- azalemeth 2mo agoAlas, the android VM will fail safetynet by not passing bootloader attestation. I really hate modern Google.
- netsharc 2mo agoIt makes sense to have these kinds of checks because of rootkits, but sadly the poweruser is fucked. There isn't even an option to say "I know what I am doing and if a hacker takes all my money I won't cry to the bank". Probably the banks prefer that no emulators can snoop and see how exploitable their apps are.
- inigyou 2mo agoThat isn't a legal option for good reasons. If it was legal, every bank would make you tick it.
- mfashby 2mo agoWaydroid, mentioned in the article, is approximately this
- throwawayk7h 2mo agoThe problem is that Remote Attestation allows apps to reliably detect running in an emulator. Otherwise, it's already possible with waydroid.
- thelastgallon 2mo agoThen, I guess the only (immediate) option is to make sure all apps also have a website too.
- CalRobert 2mo agoRecaptcha requiring attestation also belongs in the list
- tarkin2 2mo agoPerfect is the enemy of good. Also, you can use the bank's website for most tasks. I think most non-techies could happily do this.
- CalRobert 2mo agoIn Europe at least the banks website won’t function if you don’t auth with their app.
- jraph 2mo agoI live in Europe and I can use my bank just fine without their app. I've read somewhere that some banks will let you use their SMS 2FA as long as you haven't already used their mobile app.
- CalRobert 2mo agoCool, good to know. When I first moved to Ireland you could get a hardware code generator too but I don’t know if that’s still a thing
- Anonyneko 2mo agoStill a thing with some of the Finnish banks, as I've recently learned. In my bank it costs ~20€ - unless you can't physically use a smartphone, in which case it's free. But you kinda have to know that it exists.
- jraph 2mo ago> unless you can't physically use a smartphone Like, because of a disability, or because you don't have a smartphone? In the latter case, would it work to just go to the bank with a dumb phone?
- Natfan 2mo agoor if you work in a highly controlled location like a prison, and aren't ale to bring in a mobile phone
- MarceliusK 2mo agoThe frustrating part is that security increasingly means proving you are using an approved device and software stack, rather than proving that you are actually the account owner
- yyaakkqq 2mo agothe people deciding this are the ones selling the devices
- palata 2mo agoI don't have issues with my Pixel running GrapheneOS in that regard. I have issues with goddamn banks doing that at the app level.
- fooqux 2mo agoYeah, and currently the hivemind-approved response to people complaining about apps not working in either GrapheneOS or Linux phones is to "just use the browser. Your bank has a website, right?" Well, I fear that loophole is quickly closing with little fanfare.
- yyaakkqq 2mo agocompletely missed the point, sorry. Pixels (barelly) running a binary-blob-heavy port of android is far from what is being discussed here. In fact, that is intended as a misdirection and you fell for it by bringing it in here.
- zx8080 2mo agoWhat? It's banks.
- yyaakkqq 2mo agoyou have no idea how SLOW banks move. And how little say the tech teams have there. The companies selling you the devices make 1/3 (appl) to 3/4 (alphabet) of their entire revenue on Advertising. Owning the indentity layer ensures they get fully addressable ads, which is the difference of $12 per impression instead of $.0001 per thousand impressions. But nobody is ready for this conversation.
- WorldMaker 2mo agoIt's what felt like what really killed Windows Phone. Too many things became "only available" through an iOS or Android app. Windows Phone was free as in beer towards the end and there's a possibility there would have still been a small but devoted techie audience on it, if so many things weren't already so broken from disappearing/vanished app support.
- dev1ycan 2mo agoIt always seemed insane to me that people accepted so easily to have everything locked behind "app stores", crazy garbage, even worse having SO MUCH PREINSTALLED BLOATWARE OUT OF THE BOX.
- type0 2mo agoNot just out of the box, some phones receive junk apps and ads after you run updates
- inigyou 2mo agoWhat do you mean by "accepted"? In a free market, buyers have to choose between the products that are available.
- noir_lord 2mo ago> buyers have to choose between the products that are available. That is how a free market works, however it doesn't really cover the "I need to function in society and there are no good options for this device type that have the features I care about" problem. When your choice is between the NutPuncher 9000 and the BallCrusher 17, it's something of a false choice.
- dbspin 2mo agoYup, and a duopoly isn't a free market!
- _factor 2mo agoI’m fine with that being the default. I know plenty of people who would have emulated the Win malware situation on their phone otherwise. I’m not ok with it being the only option.
- yyaakkqq 2mo ago> Very sad how it was allowed to happen so easily. says everyone, using chrome. sigh.
- shevy-java 2mo agoYou are quite right here. It's unfortunate that democracies foster a system of corporate corruption here. I notice this often when I try to, say, use firefox and my bank says, sort of "nah, use chrome only". And they only ever assume people to use either OSX or windows; Linux is kind of forbidden in the sense of "won't support it". But often it does not need any support, those browser or OS checks are wrong to begin with.
- inigyou 2mo agoWhat banks care about is complaints volume and account closures. If you can't use your bank on your phone, go complain in person to your bank. Just do it even if you think nothing will happen. Best case they unlock the website for your account, worst case nothing happens but they still got a complaint and will have to do something if they get enough similar ones.
- fooqux 2mo agoDon't go in person. That just wastes everyone's time as corporate will never hear about it. Instead, call them. Insist to talk to a human. Corporate really doesn't like call center calls, and they usually have monitoring set up to track why people are calling.
- inigyou 2mo agoDoubt that. They care about average call metrics but not why people are calling, and the call center operators have absolutely no ability to fix anything and will just work to get you off the call as quickly as possible.
- deleted 2mo ago[deleted]
- fooqux 2mo agoDoubt all you like. Customer support is a huge O&M cost to these companies and they will do nearly anything to reduce calls. I know they track why people are calling, or at least my place does. Half of my career has been spent writing software and making changes to our websites to reduce call volume.
- crabbone 2mo agoNot in my experience. My bank wouldn't even talk to me when they discontinued support for a phone I had. They don't even have anyone to complain to, which is by design. You can complain about non-technical stuff, but there's nobody to report problems with their Android app. They know full well that it's more important to you to have it working than it is for them to make sure it works for you. You will throw away almost your entire monthly paycheck to have a new phone to be able to access your bank account. They won't do as much as redirect your complaint to /dev/null.
- darkwater 2mo agoIt happened because even here on HN there are many tech people that were dismissing DRMs, secure enclave and remote attestation as "it's not a big deal" or "they have their part because an evil maid sent by a state actor could steal your disk".
- ghtbircshotbe 2mo agoIt sucks but I'm not sure there much I can do about it personally. If/when the banks stop supporting browsers completely, I'll be glad I have a phone that can install the app
- deleted 2mo ago[deleted]
- rich_sasha 2mo agoWhy do they actually need to do it? They all allow web access from just about any browser. I haven’t tried but I’m sure there must be one where the web interface works from Emacs. Why are apps different?
- zx8080 2mo agoTracing, tracking and control of the population. It's who control what apps run on a device. And what (spyware) the next update brings.