2 ms·

> ADHD wins over autism in the immediate future. It was balanced in the past for development to need both but now it’s a total hyperactive victory of general kn

by acdha 2mo ago

> ADHD wins over autism in the immediate future. It was balanced in the past for development to need both but now it’s a total hyperactive victory of general knowledge, master of none. That’s an interesting framing. I’m not sure I agree with your strong conclusion but that’s mostly because I think there’s a second axis about maintenance – you can make a grand strategy game in a couple months but it’s harder to make it balanced, fun, and to keep shipping updates which players like. A prototype or hobby experiment doesn’t have that problem nearly as much and I think that’s where we see such bimodal reactions where some people think it’s a huge productivity boost and others see modest or even negative results.

DonHopkins 2mo ago
That's right. Clearly juleiie has never actually tried to ship a game, and is just speculating without any actual experience, which is fine for fan fiction, given they have free speech and all, but totally detached from reality and not in any way useful to people actually interested in creating and shipping games. That kind of uninformed opinion is just a distraction, AI hype, and cheerleading, not anchored in any actual experience or practice. This is juleiie's laughable comment that illustrates my point exactly, and is a textbook example of the Dunning–Kruger effect, making brash overconfident claims without sharing the title and URL of any games they've actually made and tuned and finished and shipped and supported: >Good luck making a grand strategy game in two months holidays without an LLM. Now you can. Yet you didn't, juleiie. The term for you is "Armchair Architect". https://wiki.c2.com/?ArmchairArchitect https://wiki.c2.com/?ArmchairArchitect >One who can solve all the software world's problems from his armchair but considers actual implementation to be out of scope. Usually identified by a casual dismissal of real-world problems that many people have struggled with. As well as a dismissal of everything that anyone else has actually built as crap. >They have lots of seemingly great ideas that will be all things to all people but they avoid testing them with anything as crude as reality or running code. Chris Trottier, who actually has shipped games like The Sims, describes the concept of "Tuned Emergence" and "Design by Accretion": https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25964699 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25964699 DonHopkins on Jan 30, 2021 | parent | context | favorite | on: Factorio 1.1 stable The Sims (the original version) started with around 4 developers during its first 6 or so years, and it took quite a long time to develop. And yes, the team was quite tight and focused, with excellent "high" quality communication (in that we smoked lots of weed together). More developers and artists and designers came in towards the end, after EA bought Maxis, but the original version had a much smaller team than any of the subsequent version. It pains me to recall how crude and primitive it was even a year and a half before the release (check out the awful flamingo and telephone and fish tank graphics, not to mention the characters and animations themselves, like pot-bellied Archie Bunker always holding a cigar in his hand, and the naughty scenario description text @ 40:44) -- a whole lot of content and user interface and tuning was done at the very last moment: The Sims Steering Committee - June 4 1998. A demo of an early pre-release version of The Sims for The Sims Steering Committee at EA, developed June 4 1998. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zC52jE60KjY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zC52jE60KjY Chris Trottier, one of the designers, calls it "Tuned Emergence" and "Design by Accretion": https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20772916 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20772916 Here's an interview with Chris Trottier, one of the designers of The Sims, in which she describes "Tuned Emergence and Design by Accretion". Sims Designer Chris Trottier on Tuned Emergence and Design by Accretion https://web.archive.org/web/20110408034710/https://www.donhopkins.com/drupal/node/31 https://web.archive.org/web/20110408034710/https://www.donho... >Chris' honest analysis of how and why "the gameplay didn't come together until the months before the ship" is right on the mark, and that's the secret to the success of games like The Sims and SimCity. >The essential element that was missing until the last minute was tuning: The approach to game design that Maxis brought to the table is called "Tuned Emergence" and "Design by Accretion". Before it was tuned, The Sims wasn't missing any structure or content, but it just wasn't balanced yet. But it's OK, because that's how it's supposed to work! >In justifying their approach to The Sims, Maxis had to explain to EA that SimCity 2000 was not fun until 6 weeks before it shipped. But EA was not comfortable with that approach, which went against every rule in their play book. It required Will Wright's tremendous stamina to convince EA not to cancel The Sims, because according to EA's formula, it would never work. >If a game isn't tuned, it's a drag, and you can't stand to play it for an hour. The Sims and SimCity were "designed by accretion": incrementally assembled together out of "a mass of separate components", like a planet forming out of a cloud of dust orbiting around star. They had to reach critical mass first, before they could even start down the road towards "Tuned Emergence", like life finally taking hold on the planet surface. Even then, they weren't fun until they were carefully tuned just before they shipped, like the renaissance of civilization suddenly developing science and technology. Before it was properly tuned, The Sims was called "the toilet game", for the obvious reason that there wasn't much else to do!

by acdha 2mo ago

DonHopkins 2mo ago

That's right. Clearly juleiie has never actually tried to ship a game, and is just speculating without any actual experience, which is fine for fan fiction, given they have free speech and all, but totally detached from reality and not in any way useful to people actually interested in creating and shipping games. That kind of uninformed opinion is just a distraction, AI hype, and cheerleading, not anchored in any actual experience or practice. This is juleiie's laughable comment that illustrates my point exactly, and is a textbook example of the Dunning–Kruger effect, making brash overconfident claims without sharing the title and URL of any games they've actually made and tuned and finished and shipped and supported: >Good luck making a grand strategy game in two months holidays without an LLM. Now you can. Yet you didn't, juleiie. The term for you is "Armchair Architect". https://wiki.c2.com/?ArmchairArchitect https://wiki.c2.com/?ArmchairArchitect >One who can solve all the software world's problems from his armchair but considers actual implementation to be out of scope. Usually identified by a casual dismissal of real-world problems that many people have struggled with. As well as a dismissal of everything that anyone else has actually built as crap. >They have lots of seemingly great ideas that will be all things to all people but they avoid testing them with anything as crude as reality or running code. Chris Trottier, who actually has shipped games like The Sims, describes the concept of "Tuned Emergence" and "Design by Accretion": https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25964699 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25964699 DonHopkins on Jan 30, 2021 | parent | context | favorite | on: Factorio 1.1 stable The Sims (the original version) started with around 4 developers during its first 6 or so years, and it took quite a long time to develop. And yes, the team was quite tight and focused, with excellent "high" quality communication (in that we smoked lots of weed together). More developers and artists and designers came in towards the end, after EA bought Maxis, but the original version had a much smaller team than any of the subsequent version. It pains me to recall how crude and primitive it was even a year and a half before the release (check out the awful flamingo and telephone and fish tank graphics, not to mention the characters and animations themselves, like pot-bellied Archie Bunker always holding a cigar in his hand, and the naughty scenario description text @ 40:44) -- a whole lot of content and user interface and tuning was done at the very last moment: The Sims Steering Committee - June 4 1998. A demo of an early pre-release version of The Sims for The Sims Steering Committee at EA, developed June 4 1998. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zC52jE60KjY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zC52jE60KjY Chris Trottier, one of the designers, calls it "Tuned Emergence" and "Design by Accretion": https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20772916 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20772916 Here's an interview with Chris Trottier, one of the designers of The Sims, in which she describes "Tuned Emergence and Design by Accretion". Sims Designer Chris Trottier on Tuned Emergence and Design by Accretion https://web.archive.org/web/20110408034710/https://www.donhopkins.com/drupal/node/31 https://web.archive.org/web/20110408034710/https://www.donho... >Chris' honest analysis of how and why "the gameplay didn't come together until the months before the ship" is right on the mark, and that's the secret to the success of games like The Sims and SimCity. >The essential element that was missing until the last minute was tuning: The approach to game design that Maxis brought to the table is called "Tuned Emergence" and "Design by Accretion". Before it was tuned, The Sims wasn't missing any structure or content, but it just wasn't balanced yet. But it's OK, because that's how it's supposed to work! >In justifying their approach to The Sims, Maxis had to explain to EA that SimCity 2000 was not fun until 6 weeks before it shipped. But EA was not comfortable with that approach, which went against every rule in their play book. It required Will Wright's tremendous stamina to convince EA not to cancel The Sims, because according to EA's formula, it would never work. >If a game isn't tuned, it's a drag, and you can't stand to play it for an hour. The Sims and SimCity were "designed by accretion": incrementally assembled together out of "a mass of separate components", like a planet forming out of a cloud of dust orbiting around star. They had to reach critical mass first, before they could even start down the road towards "Tuned Emergence", like life finally taking hold on the planet surface. Even then, they weren't fun until they were carefully tuned just before they shipped, like the renaissance of civilization suddenly developing science and technology. Before it was properly tuned, The Sims was called "the toilet game", for the obvious reason that there wasn't much else to do!