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If they ever figure out how to get Linux onto a phone with a good camera, I'd pounce on it. I would be willing to put up with app issues and weird bugs and all

by hayleox 2mo ago

If they ever figure out how to get Linux onto a phone with a good camera, I'd pounce on it. I would be willing to put up with app issues and weird bugs and all the jankiness that comes with early adoption, but I simply can't give up being able to take really good photos with my phone.

fsflover 2mo ago
Is this a good enough camera for you? https://social.librem.one/@dos/tagged/shotonlibrem5 https://social.librem.one/@dos/tagged/shotonlibrem5
- handedness 2mo ago
  No, it's not even close to good enough. Beyond the photos, the video he posted would have been disappointing in 2003.
  - seba_dos1 2mo ago
    The (hardware) camera quality is about what you'd expect from a phone from 2019. Software processing to get JPEGs out of raw data is worse (with a huge room for improvement), but you get the raw DNGs and can employ any processing you want afterwards. Video recording, however, is the real Achilles' heel of the Librem 5, at it lacks both hardware ISP and video encoder (there are only hardware decoders). This means that any real-time processing has to happen on the GPU (replacing the ISP) and CPU (replacing the encoder). I can record indefinitely at 526x390 30 FPS and I expect 1052x780 to be achievable at a reasonable framerate with more work (currently it's at about 15 FPS IIRC), but I don't expect it to ever go significantly better that that. Of course, short clips (that fit into the RAM) and low FPS "timelapses" are possible to record at much higher quality, but these are fairly specific use cases. That said, what's there already is enough for me to have plenty of fun with the camera anyway.
    - handedness 2mo ago
      A Camp Snap is more than good enough to have fun with. That's an entirely different requirement. I had an iPhone 11 Pro Max in 2019 and its camera quality was miles ahead of the linked photos, even if you assume raw output and post-processing. (The video, as you note, is even worse.) The link provided are shill posts of photos shot mostly under highly favorable conditions, with massive amounts of post-processing happening with much newer tech. I'm looking at casual photos straight out out of my 2019 device and they're vastly better than these. Linux phones aren't going to get better by pretending the experience is something it isn't, and telling people not to believe their lying eyes. If everyone's cameras were suddenly replaced with the Librem 5's, the number of camera quality complaints would explode. It's not good enough for anything beyond novelty use.
      - seba_dos1 2mo ago
        The link provided points to my random photos and videos I was shooting in varying conditions as I went through my life, posted on my personal social media account, usually with minimal to no post-hoc processing. Not sure what is up with you here.
        handedness 2mo ago
        Every time someone says we need a better open Linux phone, the Librem 5 and PinePhone crowd shows up to tell us not to believe our lying eyes, that our standards (which are already more open to tradeoffs than the general public's are) are wrong, that they love daily driving a device and therefore extrapolate that into some kind of viability as a commercial offering for anything other than novelty hobbyists. They're fun photos and some of them are of pretty decent technical quality considering the device used, but switching from iOS/Android to Linux phone of the Librem 5 or PinePhone (/Pro) variety is a bag of hurt for anyone who isn't so committed they're willing to craft their personality around it with an almost religious-like zeal. That's what's up with me here. Still, I appreciate your photos. Edit: Check the comments. You've got a guy saying the PinePhone Pro is "there." Except, it's bad as a phone. Minor detail. I stated the camera isn't up to snuff for me, your photos are the best counterexample anyone's posted, and they still aren't up to snuff for me. Also, decent video isn't optional in 2026. I remember upgrading a BlackBerry to finally get decent video. The whole thing is so fundamentally constrained that it will never be more than a niche novelty, barring new hardware and massively better supported. But that doesn't stop the shilling. It's bizarre.
- hayleox 2mo ago
  Those are probably the best I've seen from a Linux phone, but still far too much of a downgrade for my uses. Even some of the photos taken in decently well-lit locations are noticeably grainy, so I can only imagine how poorly it'd fair in worse lighting. Tons of props to this photographer -- I have great respect for the art of getting good shots out of low-end equipment, but it's not what I want for my daily carry device.
  - seba_dos1 2mo ago
    I'm not exactly a photographer, these are just random point-and-shoot photos I took with my phone. I am, however, a programmer who has spent a bit of effort on making the photos taken on this phone look reasonably good, which is all it took to get to "the best you've seen from a Linux phone" state. Imagine what someone who actually knows what they're doing could achieve there ;) The reason some of them are grainy is that there's no denoising applied to them at all. The current GPU-based pipeline only does debayering, lens shading correction, highlight clipping, color matrix application, tone mapping and barrel distortion correction so far. You get the raws though, so you can apply whatever you want post-factum. Patches are welcome too.
  - handedness 2mo ago
    Beyond the forgiving lighting, note the huge amount of post-hoc post-processing being done.
    - seba_dos1 2mo ago
      The majority of the photos on the first page came straight from the phone with no post-hoc processing whatsoever (and if you click on the post about Millipixels, there's more of unedited ones in the replies). Only tram, train and kernel ones had some, and even then I don't think opening the photo in Darktable and adjusting a few basic sliders counts as "huge amount". If you didn't know, you could have asked.
      - handedness 2mo ago
        In that thread you're stating just months ago that Librem 5 owners no longer need to manually develop raw photos to get decent results. Truly atrocious video quality. I say the camera's not good enough for me, and I suspect the market agrees. The tram photo is arguably the best output of the lot and it's got a ton of problems by contemporary standards. Fun photo, if you didn't buy the phone for the camera and you want to hot rod it to get the best you can out of it, great. Send that to any of the typical phone reviewers and the camera's going to get panned, probably universally unless someone wants to stake out a contrarian position for publicity. "It's not bad for a Linux phone" isn't the expectation, we need a genuinely reasonably good device with good components.

by hayleox 2mo ago

fsflover 2mo ago

Is this a good enough camera for you? https://social.librem.one/@dos/tagged/shotonlibrem5 https://social.librem.one/@dos/tagged/shotonlibrem5

handedness 2mo ago
No, it's not even close to good enough. Beyond the photos, the video he posted would have been disappointing in 2003.
- seba_dos1 2mo ago
  The (hardware) camera quality is about what you'd expect from a phone from 2019. Software processing to get JPEGs out of raw data is worse (with a huge room for improvement), but you get the raw DNGs and can employ any processing you want afterwards. Video recording, however, is the real Achilles' heel of the Librem 5, at it lacks both hardware ISP and video encoder (there are only hardware decoders). This means that any real-time processing has to happen on the GPU (replacing the ISP) and CPU (replacing the encoder). I can record indefinitely at 526x390 30 FPS and I expect 1052x780 to be achievable at a reasonable framerate with more work (currently it's at about 15 FPS IIRC), but I don't expect it to ever go significantly better that that. Of course, short clips (that fit into the RAM) and low FPS "timelapses" are possible to record at much higher quality, but these are fairly specific use cases. That said, what's there already is enough for me to have plenty of fun with the camera anyway.
  - handedness 2mo ago
    A Camp Snap is more than good enough to have fun with. That's an entirely different requirement. I had an iPhone 11 Pro Max in 2019 and its camera quality was miles ahead of the linked photos, even if you assume raw output and post-processing. (The video, as you note, is even worse.) The link provided are shill posts of photos shot mostly under highly favorable conditions, with massive amounts of post-processing happening with much newer tech. I'm looking at casual photos straight out out of my 2019 device and they're vastly better than these. Linux phones aren't going to get better by pretending the experience is something it isn't, and telling people not to believe their lying eyes. If everyone's cameras were suddenly replaced with the Librem 5's, the number of camera quality complaints would explode. It's not good enough for anything beyond novelty use.
    - seba_dos1 2mo ago
      The link provided points to my random photos and videos I was shooting in varying conditions as I went through my life, posted on my personal social media account, usually with minimal to no post-hoc processing. Not sure what is up with you here.
      - handedness 2mo ago
        Every time someone says we need a better open Linux phone, the Librem 5 and PinePhone crowd shows up to tell us not to believe our lying eyes, that our standards (which are already more open to tradeoffs than the general public's are) are wrong, that they love daily driving a device and therefore extrapolate that into some kind of viability as a commercial offering for anything other than novelty hobbyists. They're fun photos and some of them are of pretty decent technical quality considering the device used, but switching from iOS/Android to Linux phone of the Librem 5 or PinePhone (/Pro) variety is a bag of hurt for anyone who isn't so committed they're willing to craft their personality around it with an almost religious-like zeal. That's what's up with me here. Still, I appreciate your photos. Edit: Check the comments. You've got a guy saying the PinePhone Pro is "there." Except, it's bad as a phone. Minor detail. I stated the camera isn't up to snuff for me, your photos are the best counterexample anyone's posted, and they still aren't up to snuff for me. Also, decent video isn't optional in 2026. I remember upgrading a BlackBerry to finally get decent video. The whole thing is so fundamentally constrained that it will never be more than a niche novelty, barring new hardware and massively better supported. But that doesn't stop the shilling. It's bizarre.
hayleox 2mo ago
Those are probably the best I've seen from a Linux phone, but still far too much of a downgrade for my uses. Even some of the photos taken in decently well-lit locations are noticeably grainy, so I can only imagine how poorly it'd fair in worse lighting. Tons of props to this photographer -- I have great respect for the art of getting good shots out of low-end equipment, but it's not what I want for my daily carry device.
- seba_dos1 2mo ago
  I'm not exactly a photographer, these are just random point-and-shoot photos I took with my phone. I am, however, a programmer who has spent a bit of effort on making the photos taken on this phone look reasonably good, which is all it took to get to "the best you've seen from a Linux phone" state. Imagine what someone who actually knows what they're doing could achieve there ;) The reason some of them are grainy is that there's no denoising applied to them at all. The current GPU-based pipeline only does debayering, lens shading correction, highlight clipping, color matrix application, tone mapping and barrel distortion correction so far. You get the raws though, so you can apply whatever you want post-factum. Patches are welcome too.
- handedness 2mo ago
  Beyond the forgiving lighting, note the huge amount of post-hoc post-processing being done.
  - seba_dos1 2mo ago
    The majority of the photos on the first page came straight from the phone with no post-hoc processing whatsoever (and if you click on the post about Millipixels, there's more of unedited ones in the replies). Only tram, train and kernel ones had some, and even then I don't think opening the photo in Darktable and adjusting a few basic sliders counts as "huge amount". If you didn't know, you could have asked.
    - handedness 2mo ago
      In that thread you're stating just months ago that Librem 5 owners no longer need to manually develop raw photos to get decent results. Truly atrocious video quality. I say the camera's not good enough for me, and I suspect the market agrees. The tram photo is arguably the best output of the lot and it's got a ton of problems by contemporary standards. Fun photo, if you didn't buy the phone for the camera and you want to hot rod it to get the best you can out of it, great. Send that to any of the typical phone reviewers and the camera's going to get panned, probably universally unless someone wants to stake out a contrarian position for publicity. "It's not bad for a Linux phone" isn't the expectation, we need a genuinely reasonably good device with good components.