3 ms·

Anyone looking at this should recognize that the hardware itself is nearly a decade old (and has performance of a mid-range Android from 11 or 12 years ago), th

Anyone looking at this should recognize that the hardware itself is nearly a decade old (and has performance of a mid-range Android from 11 or 12 years ago), the software is buggy and not fully baked (the version of Debian they JUST moved to has lost normal Debian Security team updates and maintenance has moved to the Debian LTS team) and the company has a history of extreme delays in shipping and customer service. People can spend their money however they choose, but I wouldn’t spend $1800 on a phone like that if you want to actually use it as a phone. And before buying it as underpowered “portable” Linux computer (the battery life is not good even though I hear suspend mostly works now), this is still outrageously overpriced even by current hardware pricing.

seb1204 2mo ago
All valid points to consider. I'd like to add that I'm for one don't need the latest and greatest apps, don't run games so email, SMS, messaging, YouTube or Netflix are all that are needed in terms of compute.
- MrDrMcCoy 2mo ago
  I'm surprised even those things work for you considering how unbearably slow Phosh and Linux apps are on the Furiphone with much more modern everything.
  - fsflover 2mo ago
    The slowness of Phosh is purely a consequence of the current, unoptimized software state. When I run Waydroid on PureOS on my Librem 5, it feels much smoother, despite being another layer on top of the OS.
    - seba_dos1 2mo ago
      I bet the vast majority of that slowness people complain about comes purely from GTK renderers. A motivated contributor could do wonders there.
      - MrDrMcCoy 2mo ago
        Modern GTK uses a lot of embedded JavaScript and CSS. Unless I come across strong evidence otherwise, that's where I place the blame.
tweetle_beetle 2mo ago
I find it interesting to track the reality of using these free-er devices well after launch. Sadly it always seems incredibly painful and hinted at post-launch improvements tend to be small if they come at all. https://forums.puri.sm/t/each-update-makes-my-librem5-worse/30984 https://forums.puri.sm/t/each-update-makes-my-librem5-worse/...
- handedness 2mo ago
  I wish these devices were ready to be viable alternatives for anyone not possessing a religious extremist's level of zeal for it, but they's still so far from ready. It's a shame, since we need something like this to be viable. The promise of, 'it's FOSS and these issues will be addressed,' sure didn't pan out with the PinePhone Pro, and it isn't panning out for the Librem 5. And that's setting aside hardware specs that would have been challenging over a decade ago. It turns out that when the basic user experience is terrible, adoption rates are almost non-existent, and therefore nobody develops for it. The companies themselves have also done a seriously insufficient job of supporting their devices.
  - seba_dos1 2mo ago
    I'm getting tired of all this exaggeration. I don't think there's any significant component in the Librem 5 that has even existed a decade ago already. Perhaps the audio codec. Sure, it can be underwhelming today when it comes to performance, but it's still usable and was absolutely nowhere near "challenging" back when it was fresh - also, the software got significantly more usable and performant over time. I have recently booted an image from around 2020, the progress was stunning.
    - handedness 2mo ago
      Then read more closely. I didn't say the components existed a decade ago. The performance level of that SoC would have been challenging to get what typical phone users would consider a good experience out of a decade ago. The 2016 Pixel 1, for example was a much higher performance device. Apple's iPhones from that era required considerable tradeoffs to achieve the performance they did. Some owners apparently disagree with you that the Librem 5 still usable. One, who shills for it tirelessly, states the need to disable JS to render some modern sites, a tradeoff he's happy to make, and that's his right, but to recommend something with such a heavy caveat as the solution to nearly every problem is inane. If you're looking for exaggeration, there it is. There are valid reasons very few people use them. The situation won't get better by pretending the device is something it isn't. We need an open modern device, and the Librem 5 just isn't it, despite the loud assertions of a few to the contrary.

seb1204 2mo ago

All valid points to consider. I'd like to add that I'm for one don't need the latest and greatest apps, don't run games so email, SMS, messaging, YouTube or Netflix are all that are needed in terms of compute.

MrDrMcCoy 2mo ago
I'm surprised even those things work for you considering how unbearably slow Phosh and Linux apps are on the Furiphone with much more modern everything.
- fsflover 2mo ago
  The slowness of Phosh is purely a consequence of the current, unoptimized software state. When I run Waydroid on PureOS on my Librem 5, it feels much smoother, despite being another layer on top of the OS.
  - seba_dos1 2mo ago
    I bet the vast majority of that slowness people complain about comes purely from GTK renderers. A motivated contributor could do wonders there.
    - MrDrMcCoy 2mo ago
      Modern GTK uses a lot of embedded JavaScript and CSS. Unless I come across strong evidence otherwise, that's where I place the blame.

tweetle_beetle 2mo ago

I find it interesting to track the reality of using these free-er devices well after launch. Sadly it always seems incredibly painful and hinted at post-launch improvements tend to be small if they come at all. https://forums.puri.sm/t/each-update-makes-my-librem5-worse/30984 https://forums.puri.sm/t/each-update-makes-my-librem5-worse/...

handedness 2mo ago
I wish these devices were ready to be viable alternatives for anyone not possessing a religious extremist's level of zeal for it, but they's still so far from ready. It's a shame, since we need something like this to be viable. The promise of, 'it's FOSS and these issues will be addressed,' sure didn't pan out with the PinePhone Pro, and it isn't panning out for the Librem 5. And that's setting aside hardware specs that would have been challenging over a decade ago. It turns out that when the basic user experience is terrible, adoption rates are almost non-existent, and therefore nobody develops for it. The companies themselves have also done a seriously insufficient job of supporting their devices.
- seba_dos1 2mo ago
  I'm getting tired of all this exaggeration. I don't think there's any significant component in the Librem 5 that has even existed a decade ago already. Perhaps the audio codec. Sure, it can be underwhelming today when it comes to performance, but it's still usable and was absolutely nowhere near "challenging" back when it was fresh - also, the software got significantly more usable and performant over time. I have recently booted an image from around 2020, the progress was stunning.
  - handedness 2mo ago
    Then read more closely. I didn't say the components existed a decade ago. The performance level of that SoC would have been challenging to get what typical phone users would consider a good experience out of a decade ago. The 2016 Pixel 1, for example was a much higher performance device. Apple's iPhones from that era required considerable tradeoffs to achieve the performance they did. Some owners apparently disagree with you that the Librem 5 still usable. One, who shills for it tirelessly, states the need to disable JS to render some modern sites, a tradeoff he's happy to make, and that's his right, but to recommend something with such a heavy caveat as the solution to nearly every problem is inane. If you're looking for exaggeration, there it is. There are valid reasons very few people use them. The situation won't get better by pretending the device is something it isn't. We need an open modern device, and the Librem 5 just isn't it, despite the loud assertions of a few to the contrary.