3 ms·

dumb question: is this javascript/typescript only? can you use webassembly based languages instead?

kentonv 2mo ago
In theory Wasm could be supported, but generally JS/TS is much more efficient when running inside isolates (our lightweight sandboxes) since you don't have to bundle a language runtime into the app. CFOS at present only exposes JS (with TS coming soon).
- spankalee 2mo ago
  Please add Wasm support :) I'm making a whole new language to get around the problem you're talking about: it brings no runtime at all. One of my targets is a Sandstorm like system I've been slowly working on, but I'd love for it to be a fit for the actual Sandstorm successor.
- nullpoint420 2mo ago
  Mmm so application-level sandboxing. Lovely. And I’m assuming your worker runtime is a process in a container on a shared node? What happens if the agent exploits your runtime? Does it get access to the whole container? VM? Node? Why should I ever choose this over MicroVMs? I have to design my architecture around your JS runtime. This isn’t an OS.
  - teacpde 2mo ago
    Workers are in the same process but have separate heap, global vars, gc etc, the isolation is managed and achieved by V8. It is much lightweight compared to micro VM or containers. But the downside is you have to use JS because of V8.
    - nullpoint420 2mo ago
      I get that but it’s much less secure. ie. If an agent finds a bug in V8 it’s over
  - nolist_policy 2mo ago
    Let me quote the workers GitHub: > WARNING: workerd is not a hardened sandbox > workerd tries to isolate each Worker so that it can only access the resources it is configured to access. However, workerd on its own does not contain suitable defense-in-depth against the possibility of implementation bugs. When using workerd to run possibly-malicious code, you must run it inside an appropriate secure sandbox, such as a virtual machine. The Cloudflare Workers hosting service in particular uses many additional layers of defense-in-depth. Sandstorm was great because it did proper sandboxing. This is pretty weak by comparison.

In theory Wasm could be supported, but generally JS/TS is much more efficient when running inside isolates (our lightweight sandboxes) since you don't have to bundle a language runtime into the app. CFOS at present only exposes JS (with TS coming soon).

spankalee 2mo ago
Please add Wasm support :) I'm making a whole new language to get around the problem you're talking about: it brings no runtime at all. One of my targets is a Sandstorm like system I've been slowly working on, but I'd love for it to be a fit for the actual Sandstorm successor.
nullpoint420 2mo ago
Mmm so application-level sandboxing. Lovely. And I’m assuming your worker runtime is a process in a container on a shared node? What happens if the agent exploits your runtime? Does it get access to the whole container? VM? Node? Why should I ever choose this over MicroVMs? I have to design my architecture around your JS runtime. This isn’t an OS.
- teacpde 2mo ago
  Workers are in the same process but have separate heap, global vars, gc etc, the isolation is managed and achieved by V8. It is much lightweight compared to micro VM or containers. But the downside is you have to use JS because of V8.
  - nullpoint420 2mo ago
    I get that but it’s much less secure. ie. If an agent finds a bug in V8 it’s over
- nolist_policy 2mo ago
  Let me quote the workers GitHub: > WARNING: workerd is not a hardened sandbox > workerd tries to isolate each Worker so that it can only access the resources it is configured to access. However, workerd on its own does not contain suitable defense-in-depth against the possibility of implementation bugs. When using workerd to run possibly-malicious code, you must run it inside an appropriate secure sandbox, such as a virtual machine. The Cloudflare Workers hosting service in particular uses many additional layers of defense-in-depth. Sandstorm was great because it did proper sandboxing. This is pretty weak by comparison.