4 ms·

So... what did "Always" mean, exactly?

by ajross 2mo ago

parl_match 2mo ago
If you have it, it'll always be free.
pram 2mo ago
Conditionally
inigyou 2mo ago
Not limited to exactly 12 months, like our competitor's promotion. Were you expecting a massive evil corporation to keep spending $50 every month on you forever?
- ajross 2mo ago
  > Were you expecting a massive evil corporation to keep spending $50 every month on you forever? When they offer something "always"... yes? Are "always" and "forever" not synonyms? I'm not arguing about the economics or motivation, just pointing out that simple language says that they lied.
  - inigyou 2mo ago
    Were you expecting anything to last forever? The sun's gonna explode, you know.
    - ajross 2mo ago
      Expecting someone to lie doesn't mean rolling over and refusing to acknowledge it. Not unlike people making the expected reactionary cynical commentary on internet forums still demands a response. I mean, you're very perceptive! But that's not very interesting, it's sort of the price of admission here at HN. Oracle lying in its product naming is more so.
      - inigyou 2mo ago
        When Amazon says something is always free in the free tier, it's opposite things that are free for the first 12 months of your account.
        ajross 2mo ago
        But... does Amazon say things in their free tier are "always" free? I don't think they do. This was an Oracle lie. If you take a service that you told someone was "always free" and start charging them for that, that's a lie. It just is. I'm gobsmacked that this community views this as acceptable marketing. Is this the moral foundation of our new era of startup overlords?
      - qwytw 2mo ago
        > over and refusing to acknowledge it. I guess one option would be to vote with your walled and stop paying them? Oh.. wait.. Whatever Oracle is in general this specifically (and the reduced 2 CPU + 12 GB tier ) is still massively more "generous" than what any other cloud provider gives you for free.
        deleted 2mo ago
        [deleted]
  - skeeter2020 2mo ago
    In Canada we have a grocery chain called Superstore that posts many products as "Always $x.xx" but the prices have continually been increased over the years. I wouldn't call it a lie but it sure feels dirty and unethical. They used to use the president of the family corporation in all their ads too, but don't anymore and that's probably because he knows they're in the wrong on this and many other things (like the price fixing scandals).
    - jerf 2mo ago
      Ah, my favorite exception to fraud: Puffery. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puffery https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puffery If everyone knows it's a lie... well then I guess it's not a lie anymore, is it? I kind of understand why the law takes this position. If you really think about it's hard to imagine how to truly fix this. But it still feels pretty dirty.
      - picofarad 2mo ago
        Origin of "puff peice", today I learned.
- Nux 2mo ago
  There's a fallacy in there somewhere. I bet they're not spending $X/m on any of your free things, they're sitting on underutilised resources they're paying for anyway at probably very handsome rates. At worst this is included in their marketing budget.
wang_li 2mo ago
I would think that it means they have an offering that you won't be charged for, not that they will offer the exact same thing perpetually. Like Red Robin has free refills on many sides doesn't mean that those sides will be something they serve forever.

So... what did "Always" mean, exactly?

by ajross 2mo ago

So... what did "Always" mean, exactly?

parl_match 2mo ago

If you have it, it'll always be free.

pram 2mo ago

Conditionally

inigyou 2mo ago

Not limited to exactly 12 months, like our competitor's promotion. Were you expecting a massive evil corporation to keep spending $50 every month on you forever?

ajross 2mo ago
> Were you expecting a massive evil corporation to keep spending $50 every month on you forever? When they offer something "always"... yes? Are "always" and "forever" not synonyms? I'm not arguing about the economics or motivation, just pointing out that simple language says that they lied.
- inigyou 2mo ago
  Were you expecting anything to last forever? The sun's gonna explode, you know.
  - ajross 2mo ago
    Expecting someone to lie doesn't mean rolling over and refusing to acknowledge it. Not unlike people making the expected reactionary cynical commentary on internet forums still demands a response. I mean, you're very perceptive! But that's not very interesting, it's sort of the price of admission here at HN. Oracle lying in its product naming is more so.
    - inigyou 2mo ago
      When Amazon says something is always free in the free tier, it's opposite things that are free for the first 12 months of your account.
      - ajross 2mo ago
        But... does Amazon say things in their free tier are "always" free? I don't think they do. This was an Oracle lie. If you take a service that you told someone was "always free" and start charging them for that, that's a lie. It just is. I'm gobsmacked that this community views this as acceptable marketing. Is this the moral foundation of our new era of startup overlords?
    - qwytw 2mo ago
      > over and refusing to acknowledge it. I guess one option would be to vote with your walled and stop paying them? Oh.. wait.. Whatever Oracle is in general this specifically (and the reduced 2 CPU + 12 GB tier ) is still massively more "generous" than what any other cloud provider gives you for free.
      - deleted 2mo ago
        [deleted]
- skeeter2020 2mo ago
  In Canada we have a grocery chain called Superstore that posts many products as "Always $x.xx" but the prices have continually been increased over the years. I wouldn't call it a lie but it sure feels dirty and unethical. They used to use the president of the family corporation in all their ads too, but don't anymore and that's probably because he knows they're in the wrong on this and many other things (like the price fixing scandals).
  - jerf 2mo ago
    Ah, my favorite exception to fraud: Puffery. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puffery https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puffery If everyone knows it's a lie... well then I guess it's not a lie anymore, is it? I kind of understand why the law takes this position. If you really think about it's hard to imagine how to truly fix this. But it still feels pretty dirty.
    - picofarad 2mo ago
      Origin of "puff peice", today I learned.
Nux 2mo ago
There's a fallacy in there somewhere. I bet they're not spending $X/m on any of your free things, they're sitting on underutilised resources they're paying for anyway at probably very handsome rates. At worst this is included in their marketing budget.

wang_li 2mo ago

I would think that it means they have an offering that you won't be charged for, not that they will offer the exact same thing perpetually. Like Red Robin has free refills on many sides doesn't mean that those sides will be something they serve forever.