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This is 100% open source and self-hostable. https://github.com/cloudflare/cloudflare-os https://github.com/cloudflare/cloudflare-os It runs on top of our open

by kentonv 3mo ago

This is 100% open source and self-hostable. https://github.com/cloudflare/cloudflare-os https://github.com/cloudflare/cloudflare-os It runs on top of our open source runtime. https://github.com/cloudflare/workerd https://github.com/cloudflare/workerd

yewenjie 3mo ago
Does workerd have full feature-parity with Workers, including stuff like Durable Objects?
- kentonv 3mo ago
  It's the same code. The only thing it doesn't include is the global scheduling and orchestration, but you don't actually want that locally. (And honestly... that stuff is a bit of a beast.) Durable Objects are fully supported by workerd (and Cloudflare OS uses them extensively). There is, however, one catch currently: Durable Objects don't scale out well without the global scheduling. For running Cloudflare OS for one user, this is actually no big deal, but a company-wide instance might not work well. But I'm actually fixing that: https://github.com/cloudflare/workerd/pull/6780 https://github.com/cloudflare/workerd/pull/6780 Unfortunately didn't get enough time to land it before this release, but it'll come soon. With that I would expect a self-hosted Cloudflare OS on your own cluster to work quite well.
  - AgentME 3mo ago
    This is exciting! I've loved the idea of Durable Objects but I've disliked that there's no existing way to use them while scaling to multiple machines outside of Cloudflare.
  - TheTaytay 3mo ago
    Thank you for coming in and replying to all of these comments with actionable, honest info!
mococa 3mo ago
Can I host outside Cloudflare?
- PUSH_AX 3mo ago
  No it uses cloudflare primitives
  - kentonv 3mo ago
    Incorrect. You can host it on workerd on your own servers. No Cloudflare required.
    - PUSH_AX 3mo ago
      Don’t the docs say running on wrangler is not for production use? Or am I missing something?
      - kentonv 3mo ago
        wrangler is a development tool. You wouldn't want to run dev mode in production. But workerd can be used directly without wrangler, and is production-capable in that format. Unfortunately we did not have time to put together example configs for this before launch (I wish we could have delayed, it was out of my hands), but we will be doing so soon. Mentioned in the readme here: https://github.com/cloudflare/cloudflare-os#deploy-to-your-own-server-using-workerd https://github.com/cloudflare/cloudflare-os#deploy-to-your-o...
        PUSH_AX 3mo ago
        Appreciate the correction, thank you
vavos 3mo ago
It's cool that it's open-source, but how much effort and scale would it take to run it on non cloud flare infra?
- tstrimple 3mo ago
  ffs there is literally no pleasing some people. "Hosting an open source project is too difficult! They should provide a free SaaS solution instead on their own cost but also no lock-in!!"
  - Rapzid 3mo ago
    High switching costs is a form of lock-in "open source" or not.. This is something people with real experience making real decisions are well aware of..
  - tyre 3mo ago
    I think it’s a legitimate question! Some companies operate at such a scale that if you tried to adopt their tools or services, it would be way too complex for the ROI. Think Bazel or how K8s was for ~ever. For Google’s scale? Required. For a small team? A net-negative.
    - kentonv 3mo ago
      workerd stand-alone is designed to work well at small-medium scale. If we open sourced Cloudflare's production scheduler, nobody would be able to use it because it is explicitly designed for HUGE, globe-spanning scale. Well, nobody except our direct competitors. But the goal with workerd is actually that it should be pretty easy to run, about as easy as Node. Stateless workloads should scale trivially (just add more instances and load balance). For Durable Objects (statefull), currently it doesn't scale well at all, but I'm working on changes[0] so that it scales nicely across a cluster. I intentionally chose a design here that is operationally easy to set up. (Basically: just connect all the nodes to NFSv4.) [0] https://github.com/cloudflare/workerd/pull/6780 https://github.com/cloudflare/workerd/pull/6780
  - potamic 3mo ago
EGreg 3mo ago
Kenton, back when I was building qbix.com/ecosystem you were building sandstorm, and I wanted to get in touch. Now I have spent about 6 months building the hardened, self-hosted AI version that can be hosted in different clouds like AWS and GCP, and you shipped yours. I think we’d have a lot to discuss. Should I reach out on gmail?

by kentonv 3mo ago

yewenjie 3mo ago

Does workerd have full feature-parity with Workers, including stuff like Durable Objects?

kentonv 3mo ago
It's the same code. The only thing it doesn't include is the global scheduling and orchestration, but you don't actually want that locally. (And honestly... that stuff is a bit of a beast.) Durable Objects are fully supported by workerd (and Cloudflare OS uses them extensively). There is, however, one catch currently: Durable Objects don't scale out well without the global scheduling. For running Cloudflare OS for one user, this is actually no big deal, but a company-wide instance might not work well. But I'm actually fixing that: https://github.com/cloudflare/workerd/pull/6780 https://github.com/cloudflare/workerd/pull/6780 Unfortunately didn't get enough time to land it before this release, but it'll come soon. With that I would expect a self-hosted Cloudflare OS on your own cluster to work quite well.
- AgentME 3mo ago
  This is exciting! I've loved the idea of Durable Objects but I've disliked that there's no existing way to use them while scaling to multiple machines outside of Cloudflare.
- TheTaytay 3mo ago
  Thank you for coming in and replying to all of these comments with actionable, honest info!

mococa 3mo ago

Can I host outside Cloudflare?

PUSH_AX 3mo ago
No it uses cloudflare primitives
- kentonv 3mo ago
  Incorrect. You can host it on workerd on your own servers. No Cloudflare required.
  - PUSH_AX 3mo ago
    Don’t the docs say running on wrangler is not for production use? Or am I missing something?
    - kentonv 3mo ago
      wrangler is a development tool. You wouldn't want to run dev mode in production. But workerd can be used directly without wrangler, and is production-capable in that format. Unfortunately we did not have time to put together example configs for this before launch (I wish we could have delayed, it was out of my hands), but we will be doing so soon. Mentioned in the readme here: https://github.com/cloudflare/cloudflare-os#deploy-to-your-own-server-using-workerd https://github.com/cloudflare/cloudflare-os#deploy-to-your-o...
      - PUSH_AX 3mo ago
        Appreciate the correction, thank you

vavos 3mo ago

It's cool that it's open-source, but how much effort and scale would it take to run it on non cloud flare infra?

tstrimple 3mo ago
ffs there is literally no pleasing some people. "Hosting an open source project is too difficult! They should provide a free SaaS solution instead on their own cost but also no lock-in!!"
- Rapzid 3mo ago
  High switching costs is a form of lock-in "open source" or not.. This is something people with real experience making real decisions are well aware of..
- tyre 3mo ago
  I think it’s a legitimate question! Some companies operate at such a scale that if you tried to adopt their tools or services, it would be way too complex for the ROI. Think Bazel or how K8s was for ~ever. For Google’s scale? Required. For a small team? A net-negative.
  - kentonv 3mo ago
    workerd stand-alone is designed to work well at small-medium scale. If we open sourced Cloudflare's production scheduler, nobody would be able to use it because it is explicitly designed for HUGE, globe-spanning scale. Well, nobody except our direct competitors. But the goal with workerd is actually that it should be pretty easy to run, about as easy as Node. Stateless workloads should scale trivially (just add more instances and load balance). For Durable Objects (statefull), currently it doesn't scale well at all, but I'm working on changes[0] so that it scales nicely across a cluster. I intentionally chose a design here that is operationally easy to set up. (Basically: just connect all the nodes to NFSv4.) [0] https://github.com/cloudflare/workerd/pull/6780 https://github.com/cloudflare/workerd/pull/6780
- potamic 3mo ago

EGreg 3mo ago

Kenton, back when I was building qbix.com/ecosystem you were building sandstorm, and I wanted to get in touch. Now I have spent about 6 months building the hardened, self-hosted AI version that can be hosted in different clouds like AWS and GCP, and you shipped yours. I think we’d have a lot to discuss. Should I reach out on gmail?