2 ms·

I don't really understand where you two disagree. You appear to be saying the same thing. Sure, nobody is campaigning to rejoin with the old priviliges and opt

I don't really understand where you two disagree. You appear to be saying the same thing. Sure, nobody is campaigning to rejoin with the old priviliges and opt-outs, but that's because nobody sees how to rejoin with the old priviliges and opt-outs, nor do they see a path to convincing UK voters to rejoin with a worse deal than they used to have. Hence, all the british politicians who think Brexit was a mistake are just sitting on their hands, and not making any effort to even start a rejoin campaign. You appear to tacitly accept this premise when you say > "If it can retain its current unity — which is by no means a given — then we will be on the outside of it forever."

dofm 2mo ago
We are saying the same thing except for that specific narrow point (I edited my post a little to make it clearer). I was just observing that if that is a consensus on the continent — that we're going to be begging to be let back in on the old terms — it is people spinning a yarn for their own reasons. Because it isn't a correct characterisation. Even the Leave voters have had long enough to realise that what Remain campaigners were saying about the structural advantages of membership and the speed of recovering any comparative position are true. Brexit-means-Brexit types all seem to project success into the future long enough that the only people who will call them on it will be nursing home carers. You are right that there is no pathway to rejoin that isn't a humiliation. And the longer we wait, the more people forget what we had. Hence Reform and Restore can rage about a worsened border situation that their own politicians actually created; their voters have forgotten that Brexit made it worse.