3 ms·

I'm not sure why you don't believe it? It's literally true? I guess if you want to believe it, go study law? I'm not really sure what to say there. Negligenc

I'm not sure why you don't believe it? It's literally true? I guess if you want to believe it, go study law? I'm not really sure what to say there. Negligence is not a crime, it's civil liability. Gross negligence (reckless disregard for human life) is often a crime, and often there are crimes related to it (reckless driving, etc). It also does not require intent to injure, so it could be committed by, say, an operator by operating an autonomous vehicle knowing it was unsafe and could harm people. So it usually requires knowledge but not specific intent. Again, crimes like this are state specific, and sometimes even municipality specific so it's tricky to give an exact result without pinning it to a state. However, for example, all states where autonomous vehicles are operating have statutes explicitly defining civil and criminal liability right now, so it doesn't get into the more general legal question of AI. The same thing is already starting to happen with AI agents in general, it's just not there yet. As i mentioned elsewhere, criminal law is often reactive, not proactive. We usually do not make things crimes until after someone has already been hurt, and society gets really upset about it. As i also mentioned elsewhere, attempts to be proactive have also rarely worked out effectively, so it's sort of lose-lose in that sense. But it usually does not take anywhere near as long as people think for law to catch up.

segmondy 2mo ago
Makes sense, thanks for explaining. I guess I have often conflated civil liability with being equivalent to a crime as well.
- Henchman21 2mo ago
  I think a lot of us who aren’t lawyers equate “breaking the law” with “criminal behavior”, which implies a crime. But if course lawyers gonna lawyer so that hair has been split very finely & repeatedly over time. Feels like the difference between the vernacular and the letter of the law to me?
  - segmondy 2mo ago
    I have often heard, "ignorance of the law is no excuse" so I always imagined that if you broke the law, you committed a crime, but I suppose it makes sense, if you break the law and you have no idea and no intent, you have broken the law, not committed a crime, but could be held liable for any harm arising from that. In the case where it's not clear the court must then decide. So I suppose we need to find out who is responsible for actions taken by AI. The model creator? The harness creator? The executor? What if a non technical person downloads an AI model and a harness, runs it locally and the AI goes out and breaks the law? I suppose it could vary, like a car. A car manufacturer makes a fault car and the brake fails and kills someone, they are liable. The car is okay and the driver is not paying attention and kills someone, the driver is.
tptacek 2mo ago
There's a state where a municipality can define a felony?

segmondy 2mo ago

Makes sense, thanks for explaining. I guess I have often conflated civil liability with being equivalent to a crime as well.

Henchman21 2mo ago
I think a lot of us who aren’t lawyers equate “breaking the law” with “criminal behavior”, which implies a crime. But if course lawyers gonna lawyer so that hair has been split very finely & repeatedly over time. Feels like the difference between the vernacular and the letter of the law to me?
- segmondy 2mo ago
  I have often heard, "ignorance of the law is no excuse" so I always imagined that if you broke the law, you committed a crime, but I suppose it makes sense, if you break the law and you have no idea and no intent, you have broken the law, not committed a crime, but could be held liable for any harm arising from that. In the case where it's not clear the court must then decide. So I suppose we need to find out who is responsible for actions taken by AI. The model creator? The harness creator? The executor? What if a non technical person downloads an AI model and a harness, runs it locally and the AI goes out and breaks the law? I suppose it could vary, like a car. A car manufacturer makes a fault car and the brake fails and kills someone, they are liable. The car is okay and the driver is not paying attention and kills someone, the driver is.

tptacek 2mo ago

There's a state where a municipality can define a felony?