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I have a property in NW Wisconsin. It's incredibly poor there - it seems like most people working age are on disability - the new form of welfare. Money is earn

I have a property in NW Wisconsin. It's incredibly poor there - it seems like most people working age are on disability - the new form of welfare. Money is earned mostly in summer and hunting seasons. It's pretty depressing. Lots of alcohol problems. I hired someone to clear some trees and make lumber out of them once and he showed up for the job three months later. At least he showed up though. Weirdest thing - he never came back after the job to get paid. I end up often hiring contractors from 90 miles away to get good ones. But a data center wouldn't help. It would raise electric prices and doesn't really employ people. It's kind of like one industry that is in the area - there's a company that grows huge amounts of cranberries but its mostly automated. As far as I know only three people work on this huge site. They let the cranberries grow, flood the area when they're ready. The cranberries float to the top for robots to skim the surface and harvest them. The humans just move things around for the robots.

ianm218 2mo ago
If the data center was paying a decent amount of taxes surely it would help though right? In theory the taxes would go towards pro social uses.
- tyromaniac 2mo ago
  Worth checking out https://buildermuse.com/economy/every-state-offering-data-center-tax-incentives/ https://buildermuse.com/economy/every-state-offering-data-ce...
- deadbunny 2mo ago
  Which would be a good argument if the datacenters actually paid any taxes. They shop around for tens to hundreds of millions in tax breaks from officials who believe the lies like "we'll create thousands of jobs!".
  - ofrzeta 2mo ago
    TFA cites "Each project requires thousands of skilled workers during the two to six year construction period (nearly 10,000 in Mount Pleasant)" so maybe it's not totally fiction (at least during build time).
    - bob001 2mo ago
      To me that's not sustainable. It just brings in outside workers, distorts the economy in bad way for locals through increased costs, distorts their daily life in a bad way and then it all goes away leaving a void in its wake. Like the olympics.
      - ianm218 2mo ago
        The Olympics are seen as a net negative for local economies though because it requires tons of local investment for a temporary payoff so the juice (billions of dollars of infra) isn’t worth the squeeze (a few weeks of high utilization followed by a glut). For data centers you get a medium term boost to the economy + long term tax revenue. The externalities of data centers are quite low if you don’t put them right in someone’s neighborhood.
      - throwaway2037 2mo ago
        This is a weird comment to me. Think about green energy, specifically solar panels and wind farms. Almost by definition, the jobs created are only during installation. (Ok, there is a little bit of long-term maintenance, but a tiny fraction.) Would you say the same about those projects? It is unavoidable that the modern world needs data centers (how many is open for debate). It is a fact of life that most of the jobs associated with data centers are during the installation, not the ongoing maintenance. Again: Are you trying to say that building any and all data centers is bad for your reasons? I will give another example: When a company builds a highly automated factory, the same occurs. Inside the factory, there are very few highly skills jobs. Most of them are low skill (moving boxes and refilling automated machines that are cheaper than automating the work). Again: Are you saying that we should not be building these highly automated factories for your reasons?
  - actionfromafar 2mo ago
    Some believe the lies. Some just believe in a good golf club.
- bob001 2mo ago
  City taxes don't fix a broken economic flywheel. State taxes go to others and also don't fix it. You need a functional economy with jobs, income, spending and all that jazz. A small amount of taxes with no second order benefits is worth relatively little.
  - ianm218 2mo ago
    Sure but progress over perfection right? More tax revenue puts you in a better spot to attack those problems than not having it. Even just doing what Northern Virginia does and lowering people’s property taxes gives homeowners more disposable income/ lowers prices for renters which is a start.
    - genericdrone436 2mo ago
      You realize that Loudoun County, VA has the highest median family income of any county in the US, right? Its not an economically struggling region that needs permanent jobs.
- mapontosevenths 2mo ago
  They often don't. In my area the locals gave them giant tax breaks in the hope of bringing in jobs that dont exist.
- blitzar 2mo ago
  > If the data center was paying a decent amount of taxes if my aunt had balls, she'd be my uncle
  - ianm218 2mo ago
    This is a needlessly low effort reply that hurts the discussion. Some data centers are paying lots of taxes and upgrading local grids, others are bribing local politicians or lobbying for abatements. That is a much more substantive discussion than blanket anti growth.
- ModernMech 2mo ago
  A school and hospital would do that more than a data center tho. Look at Merced California, used to be a nowhere destination. They built a UC there and now it’s a place students, PhDs and MDs from around the world want to move to. If UC Merced were a data center it would attract no one, it would drain and pollute the lake, and Merced CA would still be a nowhere destination.
  - ianm218 2mo ago
    We’re talking about rural Wisconsin - there is no world where you need to make a trade off between having school and a data center. Put a school in one field and a data center in a field further away. It just seems like you should tax the data center and then build a school or whatever else you think would help the local economy.
    - ModernMech 2mo ago
      A data center turns the whole town into an industrial zone because of the sound and water pollution. No one wants to live near one, especially not doctors and teachers with young families who can choose to live anywhere.
      - inemesitaffia 2mo ago
        Merced has a datacenter.
      - ianm218 2mo ago
        Data centers don’t cause water pollution generally or turn entire towns into industrial zones. There is more than enough room in rural WI towns for industrial and non industrial parts. > No one wants to live near one, especially not doctors and teachers with young families who can choose to live anywhere. Northern Virginia is one of the top locations for the kind of people who “can live anywhere” and is the world capital of data centers. And part of that appeal in NoVA is low property taxes due to data centers paying taxes. There is some real aspects of the data center debate but I don’t think your engaging with them
deleted 2mo ago
[deleted]
ransom1538 2mo ago
Exactly. Let's leave data centers to other nations. Let them run the intelligence and manufacturing, lets focus on getting (more) disability.
- inigyou 2mo ago
  What do you believe is the link between chatboxes and manufacturing?
skywhopper 2mo ago
“Disability, the new form of welfare”? How old are you exactly?
Tade0 2mo ago
> Weirdest thing - he never came back after the job to get paid. I believe you've met a Mike Garage: https://x.com/japan_nobunaga/status/2083940637921943803 https://x.com/japan_nobunaga/status/2083940637921943803 They don't always accept payment.

ianm218 2mo ago

If the data center was paying a decent amount of taxes surely it would help though right? In theory the taxes would go towards pro social uses.

tyromaniac 2mo ago
Worth checking out https://buildermuse.com/economy/every-state-offering-data-center-tax-incentives/ https://buildermuse.com/economy/every-state-offering-data-ce...
deadbunny 2mo ago
Which would be a good argument if the datacenters actually paid any taxes. They shop around for tens to hundreds of millions in tax breaks from officials who believe the lies like "we'll create thousands of jobs!".
- ofrzeta 2mo ago
  TFA cites "Each project requires thousands of skilled workers during the two to six year construction period (nearly 10,000 in Mount Pleasant)" so maybe it's not totally fiction (at least during build time).
  - bob001 2mo ago
    To me that's not sustainable. It just brings in outside workers, distorts the economy in bad way for locals through increased costs, distorts their daily life in a bad way and then it all goes away leaving a void in its wake. Like the olympics.
    - ianm218 2mo ago
      The Olympics are seen as a net negative for local economies though because it requires tons of local investment for a temporary payoff so the juice (billions of dollars of infra) isn’t worth the squeeze (a few weeks of high utilization followed by a glut). For data centers you get a medium term boost to the economy + long term tax revenue. The externalities of data centers are quite low if you don’t put them right in someone’s neighborhood.
    - throwaway2037 2mo ago
      This is a weird comment to me. Think about green energy, specifically solar panels and wind farms. Almost by definition, the jobs created are only during installation. (Ok, there is a little bit of long-term maintenance, but a tiny fraction.) Would you say the same about those projects? It is unavoidable that the modern world needs data centers (how many is open for debate). It is a fact of life that most of the jobs associated with data centers are during the installation, not the ongoing maintenance. Again: Are you trying to say that building any and all data centers is bad for your reasons? I will give another example: When a company builds a highly automated factory, the same occurs. Inside the factory, there are very few highly skills jobs. Most of them are low skill (moving boxes and refilling automated machines that are cheaper than automating the work). Again: Are you saying that we should not be building these highly automated factories for your reasons?
- actionfromafar 2mo ago
  Some believe the lies. Some just believe in a good golf club.
bob001 2mo ago
City taxes don't fix a broken economic flywheel. State taxes go to others and also don't fix it. You need a functional economy with jobs, income, spending and all that jazz. A small amount of taxes with no second order benefits is worth relatively little.
- ianm218 2mo ago
  Sure but progress over perfection right? More tax revenue puts you in a better spot to attack those problems than not having it. Even just doing what Northern Virginia does and lowering people’s property taxes gives homeowners more disposable income/ lowers prices for renters which is a start.
  - genericdrone436 2mo ago
    You realize that Loudoun County, VA has the highest median family income of any county in the US, right? Its not an economically struggling region that needs permanent jobs.
mapontosevenths 2mo ago
They often don't. In my area the locals gave them giant tax breaks in the hope of bringing in jobs that dont exist.
blitzar 2mo ago
> If the data center was paying a decent amount of taxes if my aunt had balls, she'd be my uncle
- ianm218 2mo ago
  This is a needlessly low effort reply that hurts the discussion. Some data centers are paying lots of taxes and upgrading local grids, others are bribing local politicians or lobbying for abatements. That is a much more substantive discussion than blanket anti growth.
ModernMech 2mo ago
A school and hospital would do that more than a data center tho. Look at Merced California, used to be a nowhere destination. They built a UC there and now it’s a place students, PhDs and MDs from around the world want to move to. If UC Merced were a data center it would attract no one, it would drain and pollute the lake, and Merced CA would still be a nowhere destination.
- ianm218 2mo ago
  We’re talking about rural Wisconsin - there is no world where you need to make a trade off between having school and a data center. Put a school in one field and a data center in a field further away. It just seems like you should tax the data center and then build a school or whatever else you think would help the local economy.
  - ModernMech 2mo ago
    A data center turns the whole town into an industrial zone because of the sound and water pollution. No one wants to live near one, especially not doctors and teachers with young families who can choose to live anywhere.
    - inemesitaffia 2mo ago
      Merced has a datacenter.
    - ianm218 2mo ago
      Data centers don’t cause water pollution generally or turn entire towns into industrial zones. There is more than enough room in rural WI towns for industrial and non industrial parts. > No one wants to live near one, especially not doctors and teachers with young families who can choose to live anywhere. Northern Virginia is one of the top locations for the kind of people who “can live anywhere” and is the world capital of data centers. And part of that appeal in NoVA is low property taxes due to data centers paying taxes. There is some real aspects of the data center debate but I don’t think your engaging with them

deleted 2mo ago

[deleted]

ransom1538 2mo ago

Exactly. Let's leave data centers to other nations. Let them run the intelligence and manufacturing, lets focus on getting (more) disability.

inigyou 2mo ago
What do you believe is the link between chatboxes and manufacturing?

skywhopper 2mo ago

“Disability, the new form of welfare”? How old are you exactly?

Tade0 2mo ago

> Weirdest thing - he never came back after the job to get paid. I believe you've met a Mike Garage: https://x.com/japan_nobunaga/status/2083940637921943803 https://x.com/japan_nobunaga/status/2083940637921943803 They don't always accept payment.