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All this chart shows in an increase in the number of single mother households over time, particularly starting in the 1960s/1970s, in the United States. Whether

All this chart shows in an increase in the number of single mother households over time, particularly starting in the 1960s/1970s, in the United States. Whether or not you see that as sad depends on what you know of the living conditions women experienced in the time before that, conditions which gave rise the 2nd wave feminist movements. Suffice it to say the same underlying social and gender disparities existed prior to the increased occurrence of divorce and US society was not more stable or better off before that increase.

jacoblyles 14y ago
As far as I am aware, children living with both parents do much better in life in a variety of metrics (income, criminality, academics, child poverty, and etc.). While easier divorce may have led to an increase in equality for women, it has also had an immense negative impact on children. Trade-offs exist, whether or not we choose to ignore them for ideological reasons. You are free to believe that the modern world is better off, despite the costs. But you should be aware of the costs.
- Klinky 14y ago
  My mother's father was alcoholic, my father was alcoholic. These issues had nothing to do with the availability of divorce. I highly doubt it would have assisted my mother or I if my grandmother and my mother were not allowed to divorce. It is apples and oranges to compare today's society with the societies of past, and not so easy to arrive at solid conclusions regarding the impacts and costs of changes in social values.
  - jacoblyles 14y ago
    I'm sorry for your personal difficulties, but I try not to base my personal worldview on anecdotes. I agree with you that these are difficult issues with large accounts on both sides of the ledger. In fact, that is kind of my point.
    - Klinky 14y ago
      I do not believe that was your point at all. Your post suggested quite the opposite. To me it read as though you think people are ignoring the impact easy divorce has on children because of ideological reasons. The same could be said of people who think marriage means a happy and stable home life.
      - jacoblyles 14y ago
        I'm speaking of averages. On average, a two parent home is much better for children. Of course there are exceptions. Pointing out exceptions to robust statistical data is the most common fallacious statistical argument.
        narag 14y ago
        Statistical data don't tell why. Divorce could be the effect of the real problem (alcoholism or mental disorder) and staying married could actually have made things worse. The thing is, once you got to decide, statistics say nothing useful, it's your situation or, if you prefer, your exception, your anecdote, what really matters.
- king_jester 14y ago
  > As far as I am aware, children living with both parents do much better in life in a variety of metrics (income, criminality, academics, child poverty, and etc.). While easier divorce may have led to an increase in equality for women, it has also had an immense negative impact on children. This isn't the result of divorce being more accessible, this is the result of how difficult it is to be a single parent and how little support you have on a single income while providing all primary care for your kids. The fix for that is to address systemic issues regarding class, gender discrimination, reduced access to family planning, health care access. Even by the chart you provided, single father households have not grown dramatically since the 1960s/1970s since women end up being primary care given for children in a majority of cases, whether by desire or by cultural default. I agree with you 100% about awareness of cost, but easier access to divorce and a lessening of the cultural expectation that women be married has simply made existing problems more apparent to society at large, which is a good thing in terms of identifying where we need to fix social inequalities.
- saraid216 14y ago
  I see a chart that shows that single parents and their children aren't dying of poverty as much as they used to. I suppose you could say that this is a net negative for the children, since they might be unhappy rather than dead, but that's a value judgement of your choosing.

jacoblyles 14y ago

As far as I am aware, children living with both parents do much better in life in a variety of metrics (income, criminality, academics, child poverty, and etc.). While easier divorce may have led to an increase in equality for women, it has also had an immense negative impact on children. Trade-offs exist, whether or not we choose to ignore them for ideological reasons. You are free to believe that the modern world is better off, despite the costs. But you should be aware of the costs.

Klinky 14y ago
My mother's father was alcoholic, my father was alcoholic. These issues had nothing to do with the availability of divorce. I highly doubt it would have assisted my mother or I if my grandmother and my mother were not allowed to divorce. It is apples and oranges to compare today's society with the societies of past, and not so easy to arrive at solid conclusions regarding the impacts and costs of changes in social values.
- jacoblyles 14y ago
  I'm sorry for your personal difficulties, but I try not to base my personal worldview on anecdotes. I agree with you that these are difficult issues with large accounts on both sides of the ledger. In fact, that is kind of my point.
  - Klinky 14y ago
    I do not believe that was your point at all. Your post suggested quite the opposite. To me it read as though you think people are ignoring the impact easy divorce has on children because of ideological reasons. The same could be said of people who think marriage means a happy and stable home life.
    - jacoblyles 14y ago
      I'm speaking of averages. On average, a two parent home is much better for children. Of course there are exceptions. Pointing out exceptions to robust statistical data is the most common fallacious statistical argument.
      - narag 14y ago
        Statistical data don't tell why. Divorce could be the effect of the real problem (alcoholism or mental disorder) and staying married could actually have made things worse. The thing is, once you got to decide, statistics say nothing useful, it's your situation or, if you prefer, your exception, your anecdote, what really matters.
king_jester 14y ago
> As far as I am aware, children living with both parents do much better in life in a variety of metrics (income, criminality, academics, child poverty, and etc.). While easier divorce may have led to an increase in equality for women, it has also had an immense negative impact on children. This isn't the result of divorce being more accessible, this is the result of how difficult it is to be a single parent and how little support you have on a single income while providing all primary care for your kids. The fix for that is to address systemic issues regarding class, gender discrimination, reduced access to family planning, health care access. Even by the chart you provided, single father households have not grown dramatically since the 1960s/1970s since women end up being primary care given for children in a majority of cases, whether by desire or by cultural default. I agree with you 100% about awareness of cost, but easier access to divorce and a lessening of the cultural expectation that women be married has simply made existing problems more apparent to society at large, which is a good thing in terms of identifying where we need to fix social inequalities.
saraid216 14y ago
I see a chart that shows that single parents and their children aren't dying of poverty as much as they used to. I suppose you could say that this is a net negative for the children, since they might be unhappy rather than dead, but that's a value judgement of your choosing.