5 ms·

> That car can be full time serving 4-10 units daily? A bus could serve 40-100 daily. The infrastructure already exists - the same as for cars. It's pretty l

by danans 2mo ago

> That car can be full time serving 4-10 units daily? A bus could serve 40-100 daily. The infrastructure already exists - the same as for cars. It's pretty low cost also - especially electric buses that have lower maintenance costs. The problem is that you have to ride with other people.

milkytron 2mo ago
Riding with other people is _a_ problem, but I don't think it's the primary problem for why transit isn't used in the US. Imo, the biggest problem is that of convenience. Convenience (time), cost, comfort, and (perceived) safety are the factors people use to make transportation mode choices. If buses aren't prioritized in traffic above single occupant vehicles via dedicated bus lanes, signalling, etc. then they'll always be slower than a car because of the additional stops. Frequency is also a consideration that factors into timing, as well as transfers. If any US city wants to get people onto transit, they need to prioritize transit above less efficient modes, amongst other things.
servo_sausage 2mo ago
As infrastructure, busses don't make sense if you assume self driving EVs are going to be widespread. Trying to keep using something that is comprised by fixed routes, schedules, and stops makes n little sense.
- master-lincoln 2mo ago
  Disagree because of the amount of space wasted for parking
  - servo_sausage 2mo ago
    What? Autonomous cars can park wherever...
    - master-lincoln 2mo ago
      But they take up much more space than busses/trains per passenger.
      - servo_sausage 2mo ago
        So what? It's a genuinely irrelevant detail... We don't need to optimise for space, we need to optimise for cost of transport, and door to door duration.
    - bluGill 2mo ago
      Only by taking up more road space going to a parking lot. And more energy in those travels - that energy is at best 50% fossil fuels.
- Breza 2mo ago
  Look at the train and bus stops outside of a transit-connected stadium after a game. Here in DC, the transit cops often make people wait outside the subway stations so they aren't overcrowded. I can't imagine the congestion nightmare of trying to put every one of those people into cars instead. At a slightly smaller scale, think about rush hour. The passengers on a single bus could fill up the entire block if they were in individual cars instead. And that's not even considering empty AVs driving around looking for a fare. Locally we're thinking about assessing a mileage fee to discourage this behavior, which is a good start, but at some point you inevitably will have lots of empty cars heading to the stadium or whatever when the game is about to end, clogging streets. I'm definitely not anti-Waymo. I want them to be legalized here. I'm just realistic that they will basically serve the role of taxis/Ubers, not replace the concept of buses.
_fizz_buzz_ 2mo ago
I am from Germany and public transit is hit and miss here also. Big cities like cologne are great. My commute to work is also fine with public transit (although I mostly bike, actually) But very often there are places I have to go where public transit is pretty inconvenient (adding a lot of time to a trip). I am all for public transit and it should be cheap (maybe even free) and widely available, but it simply doesn’t work for me all the time.
TiredOfLife 2mo ago
And a 3km long train evem more

by danans 2mo ago

milkytron 2mo ago

Riding with other people is _a_ problem, but I don't think it's the primary problem for why transit isn't used in the US. Imo, the biggest problem is that of convenience. Convenience (time), cost, comfort, and (perceived) safety are the factors people use to make transportation mode choices. If buses aren't prioritized in traffic above single occupant vehicles via dedicated bus lanes, signalling, etc. then they'll always be slower than a car because of the additional stops. Frequency is also a consideration that factors into timing, as well as transfers. If any US city wants to get people onto transit, they need to prioritize transit above less efficient modes, amongst other things.

servo_sausage 2mo ago

As infrastructure, busses don't make sense if you assume self driving EVs are going to be widespread. Trying to keep using something that is comprised by fixed routes, schedules, and stops makes n little sense.

master-lincoln 2mo ago
Disagree because of the amount of space wasted for parking
- servo_sausage 2mo ago
  What? Autonomous cars can park wherever...
  - master-lincoln 2mo ago
    But they take up much more space than busses/trains per passenger.
    - servo_sausage 2mo ago
      So what? It's a genuinely irrelevant detail... We don't need to optimise for space, we need to optimise for cost of transport, and door to door duration.
  - bluGill 2mo ago
    Only by taking up more road space going to a parking lot. And more energy in those travels - that energy is at best 50% fossil fuels.
Breza 2mo ago
Look at the train and bus stops outside of a transit-connected stadium after a game. Here in DC, the transit cops often make people wait outside the subway stations so they aren't overcrowded. I can't imagine the congestion nightmare of trying to put every one of those people into cars instead. At a slightly smaller scale, think about rush hour. The passengers on a single bus could fill up the entire block if they were in individual cars instead. And that's not even considering empty AVs driving around looking for a fare. Locally we're thinking about assessing a mileage fee to discourage this behavior, which is a good start, but at some point you inevitably will have lots of empty cars heading to the stadium or whatever when the game is about to end, clogging streets. I'm definitely not anti-Waymo. I want them to be legalized here. I'm just realistic that they will basically serve the role of taxis/Ubers, not replace the concept of buses.

_fizz_buzz_ 2mo ago

I am from Germany and public transit is hit and miss here also. Big cities like cologne are great. My commute to work is also fine with public transit (although I mostly bike, actually) But very often there are places I have to go where public transit is pretty inconvenient (adding a lot of time to a trip). I am all for public transit and it should be cheap (maybe even free) and widely available, but it simply doesn’t work for me all the time.

TiredOfLife 2mo ago

And a 3km long train evem more