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A generation of Afghan women got to learn to read because of the US intervention. I don't think you'd find very many Afghans who prefer life pre- or post-US occ

by SR2Z 2mo ago

A generation of Afghan women got to learn to read because of the US intervention. I don't think you'd find very many Afghans who prefer life pre- or post-US occupation to even the very shitty, corrupt government the US set up. Iran was funding terror attacks on Israel (and has been for decades) which for all its many faults is a liberal democracy which grants citizenship to millions of Palestinians who get to vote. Trump is a moron who picked a fight he could not possibly win, but fundamentally this was not a war that got declared out of the blue. Iraq II was an unjustifiable experiment in nation-building, but Iraq I was a military intervention to protect Kuwait (a constitutional monarchy) from an invading dictatorship. The US also intervened in Kosovo, Grenada, Panama, and Korea. You look those up and tell me how they went. It is very, very trendy to pretend like the US is an evil empire. It is not. I'm not in the mood to have lots of people reply to me going "but what about!" because it's not productive and I don't feel like it's constructive conversation. Believe whatever you want. If you care about actually being right, please go and at least read the Wikipedia pages about these conflicts. In war, armies go to KILL people. There are rarely good or bad guys, just evils of greater or lesser degree.

Hikikomori 2mo ago
>Iran was funding terror attacks on Israel (and has been for decades) which for all its many faults is a liberal democracy which grants citizenship to millions of Palestinians who get to vote. Trump is a moron who picked a fight he could not possibly win, but fundamentally this was not a war that got declared out of the blue. Iran had a democratically elected government that the US helped overthrow and that is why the current regime is in power. Before Iraq 1 it was the most modern middle eastern state, US deliberately destroyed civilian infrastructure. This was after propping up Saddam as a dictator for two decades as they fought Iran, also selling chemical weapons precursors to Iraq while knowing they would create those weapons. Iraq 2 was a lot more than that. Prime example of blowback as it led to ISIS. US carpet bombed north korea and killed 20% of its population, looked the other way as south Korea executed civilians. Then it turned into a military dictatorship for decades. This is not the win you think it is even if turned out okay decades later. While the US, or more correctly the UN, has done some peace keeping missions with decent results it pales in comparison to the chaos the US has created. From overthrowing democracies, installing and supporting dictators and terrorist groups, ignoring and fueling genocides, etc. Americas superpower is its ability to ignore its own hypocrisy, and you certainly embody that with a hefty sprinkle of willful ignorance.
- SR2Z 2mo ago
  > Americas superpower is its ability to ignore its own hypocrisy, and you certainly embody that with a hefty sprinkle of willful ignorance. I'm fully aware of how SK and Taiwan were military dictatorships, and how the US supported a coup in Iran. I'm not saying the US has never done horrible things, or even that the US doesn't have blood on its hands. I'm saying that geopolitics is a terrible thing, war is a terrible thing, but considering how this stuff normally works for powerful countries the US is remarkably restrained (or at least it was, until this second Trump term) and the Pax Americana seems to work out pretty well for most people around the world. > Before Iraq 1 it was the most modern middle eastern state, US deliberately destroyed civilian infrastructure. This was after propping up Saddam as a dictator for two decades as they fought Iran, also selling chemical weapons precursors to Iraq while knowing they would create those weapons. So what would be less hypocritical in your opinion? Should the US have intervened earlier to remove Saddam? Should the US have ignored its other allies and allowed Iran to do as it pleased with impunity? Should it have issued an embargo, preventing "the most modern middle eastern state" from ever achieving that title? Should it have ignored the appeals from Kuwaitis to intervene to protect their homes? The US did not and does not habitually target civilian infrastructure, only dual-use stuff. > Prime example of blowback as it led to ISIS. ISIS is an outgrowth of al-Qaeda, which was founded in Pakistan as an outgrowth of the Mujahideen who were US-sponsored rebels in Afghanistan against the Soviet-backed government. They were also sponsored by China, Pakistan, the UK, Iran, and the Arab world. This was half a century ago. ISIS then got big as part of the Syrian revolution which was... not sponsored by the US, and was brutally put down by Russia. But please, tell me more about how this is all America's fault. Clearly nobody else has any agency, right? > While the US, or more correctly the UN, has done some peace keeping missions with decent results it pales in comparison to the chaos the US has created No, the US has intervened outside of the UN with good results too. Funny you mention the UN while saying that hypocrisy is a uniquely American superpower - do you think that the other member states of the UN are bastions of morality? We're not going to agree on this. I think that compared to similarly-sized and powerful countries like China or the USSR, the US has not acted that poorly.

by SR2Z 2mo ago

Hikikomori 2mo ago

>Iran was funding terror attacks on Israel (and has been for decades) which for all its many faults is a liberal democracy which grants citizenship to millions of Palestinians who get to vote. Trump is a moron who picked a fight he could not possibly win, but fundamentally this was not a war that got declared out of the blue. Iran had a democratically elected government that the US helped overthrow and that is why the current regime is in power. Before Iraq 1 it was the most modern middle eastern state, US deliberately destroyed civilian infrastructure. This was after propping up Saddam as a dictator for two decades as they fought Iran, also selling chemical weapons precursors to Iraq while knowing they would create those weapons. Iraq 2 was a lot more than that. Prime example of blowback as it led to ISIS. US carpet bombed north korea and killed 20% of its population, looked the other way as south Korea executed civilians. Then it turned into a military dictatorship for decades. This is not the win you think it is even if turned out okay decades later. While the US, or more correctly the UN, has done some peace keeping missions with decent results it pales in comparison to the chaos the US has created. From overthrowing democracies, installing and supporting dictators and terrorist groups, ignoring and fueling genocides, etc. Americas superpower is its ability to ignore its own hypocrisy, and you certainly embody that with a hefty sprinkle of willful ignorance.

SR2Z 2mo ago
> Americas superpower is its ability to ignore its own hypocrisy, and you certainly embody that with a hefty sprinkle of willful ignorance. I'm fully aware of how SK and Taiwan were military dictatorships, and how the US supported a coup in Iran. I'm not saying the US has never done horrible things, or even that the US doesn't have blood on its hands. I'm saying that geopolitics is a terrible thing, war is a terrible thing, but considering how this stuff normally works for powerful countries the US is remarkably restrained (or at least it was, until this second Trump term) and the Pax Americana seems to work out pretty well for most people around the world. > Before Iraq 1 it was the most modern middle eastern state, US deliberately destroyed civilian infrastructure. This was after propping up Saddam as a dictator for two decades as they fought Iran, also selling chemical weapons precursors to Iraq while knowing they would create those weapons. So what would be less hypocritical in your opinion? Should the US have intervened earlier to remove Saddam? Should the US have ignored its other allies and allowed Iran to do as it pleased with impunity? Should it have issued an embargo, preventing "the most modern middle eastern state" from ever achieving that title? Should it have ignored the appeals from Kuwaitis to intervene to protect their homes? The US did not and does not habitually target civilian infrastructure, only dual-use stuff. > Prime example of blowback as it led to ISIS. ISIS is an outgrowth of al-Qaeda, which was founded in Pakistan as an outgrowth of the Mujahideen who were US-sponsored rebels in Afghanistan against the Soviet-backed government. They were also sponsored by China, Pakistan, the UK, Iran, and the Arab world. This was half a century ago. ISIS then got big as part of the Syrian revolution which was... not sponsored by the US, and was brutally put down by Russia. But please, tell me more about how this is all America's fault. Clearly nobody else has any agency, right? > While the US, or more correctly the UN, has done some peace keeping missions with decent results it pales in comparison to the chaos the US has created No, the US has intervened outside of the UN with good results too. Funny you mention the UN while saying that hypocrisy is a uniquely American superpower - do you think that the other member states of the UN are bastions of morality? We're not going to agree on this. I think that compared to similarly-sized and powerful countries like China or the USSR, the US has not acted that poorly.