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> As far as I can see, there are only three proven militaries in the world, the US, Israel and Ukraine What in your view makes these ones proven and other ones

by joemi 2mo ago

> As far as I can see, there are only three proven militaries in the world, the US, Israel and Ukraine What in your view makes these ones proven and other ones not proven?

overfeed 2mo ago
I was left scratching my head why Ukraine would be there, but not Iran, on the basis that it too has stood its ground in what the superpower aggressor planned to be short and decisive conflict.
- californical 2mo ago
  Have they? Obviously there have been a ton of issues due to the US’s strategy in Iran. But almost nobody in the US has any affect from this war. Gas prices are up a bit. Mildly inconvenient for the majority of people, and that’s the biggest failure people are mad about. Meanwhile Iran is in rough shape
  - superb_dev 2mo ago
    Gas prices are up a bit? In my area it’s gone up at least $2 from before the war. Which is just another way that everything has gotten so much more expensive recently (not that all of that is caused by the war).
    - californical 2mo ago
      Agreed yes that’s not great. But really if that’s the worst thing you’re noticing in your daily life at home, things must be pretty ok? You must see the difference between us being unhappy that gas is more expensive, versus somebody living in Iran worrying that their entire government and country is in chaos. Obviously this war is bad for a bunch of reasons, but the US is completely fine at home relatively.
      - overfeed 2mo ago
        > Obviously this war is bad for a bunch of reasons, but the US is completely fine at home relatively. With the exception of total wars, the domestic standard of living has very little to do with how well or not a foreign war is going. How good Americans are living is a non-sequitur with regards to the war objectives set by the political and military leaders in Washington and Tehran. War, being politics by other means, has to be measured by political objectives. The average American didn't even notice when America relinquished control of Afghanistan to the Taliban, amd yet it was a clear-cut failure to achieve GW's stated goals.
  - Jtsummers 2mo ago
    > Gas prices are up a bit. A gross understatement. https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=EMM_EPMR_PTE_NUS_DPG&f=W https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=E... Zoom in on this year and you'll see it's below $3 a gallon in January and February, then by the end of March it's over $4 and mostly above after that. That's a 33% increase. That's a substantial and sustained hike in a short time.
- wat10000 2mo ago
  Iran has survived this war so far because the aggressor hasn't made any attempt to actually defeat them. It's very different from Ukraine, which is holding its own against an all-out invasion. Iran might well be able to withstand an all-out invasion by the US, but it hasn't had to yet. Right now, the US is half-heartedly trying to bomb Iran into submission, something that in the entire history of aerial warfare has worked exactly once (and even that one time is debatable).
  - overfeed 2mo ago
    > Right now, the US is half-heartedly trying to bomb Iran into submission The title of TFA confirms the attempt is wholehearted: It's just not working as well as it did in Venezuela (where leadership was captured, rather than killed).
    - wat10000 2mo ago
      If it was wholehearted then the lack of long-range ground-to-ground precision munitions wouldn't be putting a damper on things, we'd be bombing round the clock from the air with way more sorties than are actually being flown. Venezuela worked because it had much clearer and more limited goals (capture Maduro, vs regime change spark a revolution hammer out an agreement on nukes who knows what) and boots were put on the ground to accomplish those goals. Venezuela was not bombed into submission. Like I said, that has happened exactly once ever (or maybe not even), and that one time involved weapons that nobody is willing to use again (and rightfully so).

by joemi 2mo ago

> As far as I can see, there are only three proven militaries in the world, the US, Israel and Ukraine What in your view makes these ones proven and other ones not proven?

overfeed 2mo ago

I was left scratching my head why Ukraine would be there, but not Iran, on the basis that it too has stood its ground in what the superpower aggressor planned to be short and decisive conflict.

californical 2mo ago
Have they? Obviously there have been a ton of issues due to the US’s strategy in Iran. But almost nobody in the US has any affect from this war. Gas prices are up a bit. Mildly inconvenient for the majority of people, and that’s the biggest failure people are mad about. Meanwhile Iran is in rough shape
- superb_dev 2mo ago
  Gas prices are up a bit? In my area it’s gone up at least $2 from before the war. Which is just another way that everything has gotten so much more expensive recently (not that all of that is caused by the war).
  - californical 2mo ago
    Agreed yes that’s not great. But really if that’s the worst thing you’re noticing in your daily life at home, things must be pretty ok? You must see the difference between us being unhappy that gas is more expensive, versus somebody living in Iran worrying that their entire government and country is in chaos. Obviously this war is bad for a bunch of reasons, but the US is completely fine at home relatively.
    - overfeed 2mo ago
      > Obviously this war is bad for a bunch of reasons, but the US is completely fine at home relatively. With the exception of total wars, the domestic standard of living has very little to do with how well or not a foreign war is going. How good Americans are living is a non-sequitur with regards to the war objectives set by the political and military leaders in Washington and Tehran. War, being politics by other means, has to be measured by political objectives. The average American didn't even notice when America relinquished control of Afghanistan to the Taliban, amd yet it was a clear-cut failure to achieve GW's stated goals.
- Jtsummers 2mo ago
  > Gas prices are up a bit. A gross understatement. https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=EMM_EPMR_PTE_NUS_DPG&f=W https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=E... Zoom in on this year and you'll see it's below $3 a gallon in January and February, then by the end of March it's over $4 and mostly above after that. That's a 33% increase. That's a substantial and sustained hike in a short time.
wat10000 2mo ago
Iran has survived this war so far because the aggressor hasn't made any attempt to actually defeat them. It's very different from Ukraine, which is holding its own against an all-out invasion. Iran might well be able to withstand an all-out invasion by the US, but it hasn't had to yet. Right now, the US is half-heartedly trying to bomb Iran into submission, something that in the entire history of aerial warfare has worked exactly once (and even that one time is debatable).
- overfeed 2mo ago
  > Right now, the US is half-heartedly trying to bomb Iran into submission The title of TFA confirms the attempt is wholehearted: It's just not working as well as it did in Venezuela (where leadership was captured, rather than killed).
  - wat10000 2mo ago
    If it was wholehearted then the lack of long-range ground-to-ground precision munitions wouldn't be putting a damper on things, we'd be bombing round the clock from the air with way more sorties than are actually being flown. Venezuela worked because it had much clearer and more limited goals (capture Maduro, vs regime change spark a revolution hammer out an agreement on nukes who knows what) and boots were put on the ground to accomplish those goals. Venezuela was not bombed into submission. Like I said, that has happened exactly once ever (or maybe not even), and that one time involved weapons that nobody is willing to use again (and rightfully so).