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I'm not trying to challenge your unwavering nationalism. Just pointing out that the constitution is dead and we're entering a police state :)

by smokeyj 14y ago

tptacek 14y ago
The sad thing is that actually reading primary sources and not buying into the Alex Jones take on any given policy question does in fact make me a turbonationalist right winger on HN. One can't even think about the issues; one must instead keep the game of conspiracy-theoretic telephone going. Here's a clue: not believing that the evil "NDAA" bill creates a secret police force that disappears Americans off the streets doesn't make me a supporter of US counterterrorism policy. If you don't want to hear mitigating/moderating sentiments about what the NDAA is, then don't say manifestly silly things about it, like that it creates a detention regime comparable to that of China. The 2001/2003/2012 AUMF/NDAA powers are not a good thing. Lots of things aren't good. That doesn't make them Hitler.
- jivatmanx 14y ago
  If this is truly a new precedent, a new lowering of the bar for freedom, than one can chart all of the legislation you list as data-points, and create a simple graph of freedom. That graph is negative. Expand that chart out, and eventually it does indeed reach Hitler. Though perhaps it's more "Brave New World" than 1984. Color-Coded terror alerts and terrorists-as-wolves commercials seem to have gone out of style and replaced with more subtle phenomenon.
- smokeyj 14y ago
  > The sad thing is that actually reading primary sources and not buying into the Alex Jones take on any given policy question does in fact make me a turbonationalist right winger on HN. Saying the US doesn't detain people without charges makes you a turbonationalist right winger. And ignorant of history. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_American_internment http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_American_internment
  - tptacek 14y ago
    This comment is about as insightful as one saying that anyone who serves in the German armed forces in 2012 must be a Nazi sympathist.
    - smokeyj 14y ago
      You don't have to find history insightful. You're still wrong. If you don't think there's people in gitmo with no charges, you're blinded by your fairy-tail fantasy.

I'm not trying to challenge your unwavering nationalism. Just pointing out that the constitution is dead and we're entering a police state :)

by smokeyj 14y ago

I'm not trying to challenge your unwavering nationalism. Just pointing out that the constitution is dead and we're entering a police state :)

tptacek 14y ago

The sad thing is that actually reading primary sources and not buying into the Alex Jones take on any given policy question does in fact make me a turbonationalist right winger on HN. One can't even think about the issues; one must instead keep the game of conspiracy-theoretic telephone going. Here's a clue: not believing that the evil "NDAA" bill creates a secret police force that disappears Americans off the streets doesn't make me a supporter of US counterterrorism policy. If you don't want to hear mitigating/moderating sentiments about what the NDAA is, then don't say manifestly silly things about it, like that it creates a detention regime comparable to that of China. The 2001/2003/2012 AUMF/NDAA powers are not a good thing. Lots of things aren't good. That doesn't make them Hitler.

jivatmanx 14y ago
If this is truly a new precedent, a new lowering of the bar for freedom, than one can chart all of the legislation you list as data-points, and create a simple graph of freedom. That graph is negative. Expand that chart out, and eventually it does indeed reach Hitler. Though perhaps it's more "Brave New World" than 1984. Color-Coded terror alerts and terrorists-as-wolves commercials seem to have gone out of style and replaced with more subtle phenomenon.
smokeyj 14y ago
> The sad thing is that actually reading primary sources and not buying into the Alex Jones take on any given policy question does in fact make me a turbonationalist right winger on HN. Saying the US doesn't detain people without charges makes you a turbonationalist right winger. And ignorant of history. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_American_internment http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_American_internment
- tptacek 14y ago
  This comment is about as insightful as one saying that anyone who serves in the German armed forces in 2012 must be a Nazi sympathist.
  - smokeyj 14y ago
    You don't have to find history insightful. You're still wrong. If you don't think there's people in gitmo with no charges, you're blinded by your fairy-tail fantasy.