4 ms·

Democracy isn't absolute. I'd rate US style democracy 6 out of 10, while Russia is 2.

by feverzsj 3mo ago

inigyou 3mo ago
Why not 4 and 1 respectively?
- sam_lowry_ 3mo ago
  Hah! Reading about the way democracy was done in Athens, both are at 0. In Athens, they had some 5000 people gathering together to vote every week on various matters out of the total population of around 20000 (the others were women, slaves and immigrants). The judicial system was organized into 10 courts of 500 randomly assigned people from the above 5000. They regularly forced the most prominent politicians to emigrate so that they do not become excessively influential. Once Sparta took over Athens, the decision-making was restricted to 500 people first, then to the 30 tyrants. P.S. IIRC, they had both secret and public voting. P.P.S. Most public jobs were assigned randomly, except those that required specialized skills.
  - lapcat 3mo ago
    > In Athens, they had some 5000 people gathering together to vote every week on various matters out of the total population of around 20000 (the others were women, slaves and immigrants). At its founding, the United States allowed widespread slavery and granted the vote only to white males, disenfranching women and black men. > They regularly forced the most prominent politicians to emigrate so that they do not become excessively influential. This sounds like a good idea to me.
    - Gander5739 3mo ago
      On the latter point, the GP is not entirely accurate. Any citizen could be expelled, so long as they had the greatest number of people vote to expel them. The practice was known as Ostracism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ostracism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ostracism).
  - inigyou 3mo ago
    > (the others were women, slaves and immigrants) Sounds like Athens was also a 0.
    - sam_lowry_ 3mo ago
      Depends on the POV, but show me a country that gives full voting rights to immigrants. At best, they can vote in local elections in a few EU countries. P.S. Ok, Ok. Belgium is unique in that it gives immigrants more rights than citizens in at least one case. Non-citizens can apply for family reunion with ascendants while citizens can't.

Democracy isn't absolute. I'd rate US style democracy 6 out of 10, while Russia is 2.

inigyou 3mo ago

Why not 4 and 1 respectively?

sam_lowry_ 3mo ago
Hah! Reading about the way democracy was done in Athens, both are at 0. In Athens, they had some 5000 people gathering together to vote every week on various matters out of the total population of around 20000 (the others were women, slaves and immigrants). The judicial system was organized into 10 courts of 500 randomly assigned people from the above 5000. They regularly forced the most prominent politicians to emigrate so that they do not become excessively influential. Once Sparta took over Athens, the decision-making was restricted to 500 people first, then to the 30 tyrants. P.S. IIRC, they had both secret and public voting. P.P.S. Most public jobs were assigned randomly, except those that required specialized skills.
- lapcat 3mo ago
  > In Athens, they had some 5000 people gathering together to vote every week on various matters out of the total population of around 20000 (the others were women, slaves and immigrants). At its founding, the United States allowed widespread slavery and granted the vote only to white males, disenfranching women and black men. > They regularly forced the most prominent politicians to emigrate so that they do not become excessively influential. This sounds like a good idea to me.
  - Gander5739 3mo ago
    On the latter point, the GP is not entirely accurate. Any citizen could be expelled, so long as they had the greatest number of people vote to expel them. The practice was known as Ostracism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ostracism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ostracism).
- inigyou 3mo ago
  > (the others were women, slaves and immigrants) Sounds like Athens was also a 0.
  - sam_lowry_ 3mo ago
    Depends on the POV, but show me a country that gives full voting rights to immigrants. At best, they can vote in local elections in a few EU countries. P.S. Ok, Ok. Belgium is unique in that it gives immigrants more rights than citizens in at least one case. Non-citizens can apply for family reunion with ascendants while citizens can't.