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> They didn’t even get to that point. Because my friend didn’t have the vocabulary to ask the AI to write code. What harness did you use? In e.g. claude, ther

> They didn’t even get to that point. Because my friend didn’t have the vocabulary to ask the AI to write code. What harness did you use? In e.g. claude, there are two modes: 1. Spit out code 2. Draft a plan, ask questions, GOTO 1 You literally have to go out of your way to get it NOT to write code. I keep mine on a tight-ish leash because it modify code way too happily even when there's no intention or instruction to do so

sam_lowry_ 3mo ago
Harness? I am an avid HN reader but even I don't yet fully understand how this word is used in the AI context. Which is exactly the point of the OP. It all boils down to naming things and cache invalidation, /s
- tyzoid 3mo ago
  Harness refers to the tooling that allows you to interact with an LLM. Web chat interface is a harness, CLI coding tools (claude code, codex, opencode, pi, etc.) are harnesses, agent systems (openclaw, hermes, etc.) are harnesses. They present different capabilities to the underlying LLM. Codex, for example, is more likely to write code if you say "I want to build an app" than ChatGPT on web will.
  - darkwater 2mo ago
    Which is an abstraction layer that the non-technical should need to know, if we follow GP's line of reasoning.
- sevenzero 2mo ago
  Personally I even refuse to learn what it is in the AI context. Feels like a waste of energy given new ~~~best ways to use YOUR tokens~~~ are discovered every month and things you learn now will be useless next month. I am doing perfectly fine with the web UI version of these tools... They seem to also not make tokens dissappear as fast as using claude cli tool to automate implementations. Makes my work day more tolerable as well as I actually have something to do over waiting until some implementation can be read through...
- sans_souse 2mo ago
  My question is do we harness a bootstrap or bootstrap a harness?
  - friendzis 2mo ago
    You bootstrap css and harness js
  - swiftcoder 2mo ago
    You strap your harness to your bootstraps, and then you can pull yourself up by your own bootstraps... right?
- mlrtime 2mo ago
  You forgot off by one errors ;)
- Shorel 2mo ago
  That's the terminology they have chosen because they believe they are "in control". It's a purely psychological thing, not different from calling different DB servers "master" and "slave". When I explain things to people, I say: the LLM is a big mouth, and it is a big mouth without hands. It can only talk. The agent is what gives some hands to the LLM, and then it can do some work.
baxtr 3mo ago
How should his friend know what a harness is?
- OutOfHere 3mo ago
  Of course everyone knows what a harness is. It is the vest they put on their dogs. Also, construction workers use one. You can buy one on Amazon. As for a coding harness, I prefer the term agentic coding.
- friendzis 2mo ago
  Having an experienced friend looking over your shoulder and taking notes of every step might help a bit, I reckon
  - baxtr 2mo ago
    I thought the idea was to test if she gets along without any help
    - lazyasciiart 2mo ago
      I'm pretty sure the idea of the question "what harness did she use" was to ask the expert recounting this anecdote to include more detail, not suggest that he relay the question to his example friend.
      - baxtr 2mo ago
        The whole point of the anecdote was to showcase that it shouldn’t matter what harness she used. That’s why the question only makes sense if it was relayed to the laywoman, in this case.
draxil 3mo ago
> my friend is a novice and needs extra help with things like: copy pasting the code into a text file I don't think this is using an agent harness.
- friendzis 2mo ago
  "rawdogging" - as the youth says - weights on local comodore cluster? They are either using some generic web frontend, ala chatgpt, some local app like claude desktop, or programming app like cursor. Each of those will detect that you are "building an app" and will spit out code in one form or another. You have to try really hard and be very explicit that you want the output in some other format than code.
andrew_lettuce 2mo ago
How would an absolute newbie know what a harness is? What an IDE is? That code is represented in a set of files? That some of those files are actually metadata? What metadata is? What GOTO means? That you're suggesting a modified SDLC? None of this is related to intelligence, desire or potential. It's about context and experience. The vast majority of people use their computers as consumption devices, like a TV. If I asked you to "make a movie" where would you start?
- phoghed 2mo ago
  Why would they need to know any of that? Tons of barely technically literate people at my job crank out webshit POC/demos with Claude desktop.
krisoft 2mo ago
> What harness did you use? I let her do all of it without influencing her choices. She choose the web interface of ChatGPT because she already had an account and that's the tool she was familiar with. While I agree with you it is not an optimal choice, web chatgpt can solve the problem. I just asked it now to do it (in my own words) and it spit out the code in one go.

sam_lowry_ 3mo ago

Harness? I am an avid HN reader but even I don't yet fully understand how this word is used in the AI context. Which is exactly the point of the OP. It all boils down to naming things and cache invalidation, /s

tyzoid 3mo ago
Harness refers to the tooling that allows you to interact with an LLM. Web chat interface is a harness, CLI coding tools (claude code, codex, opencode, pi, etc.) are harnesses, agent systems (openclaw, hermes, etc.) are harnesses. They present different capabilities to the underlying LLM. Codex, for example, is more likely to write code if you say "I want to build an app" than ChatGPT on web will.
- darkwater 2mo ago
  Which is an abstraction layer that the non-technical should need to know, if we follow GP's line of reasoning.
sevenzero 2mo ago
Personally I even refuse to learn what it is in the AI context. Feels like a waste of energy given new ~~~best ways to use YOUR tokens~~~ are discovered every month and things you learn now will be useless next month. I am doing perfectly fine with the web UI version of these tools... They seem to also not make tokens dissappear as fast as using claude cli tool to automate implementations. Makes my work day more tolerable as well as I actually have something to do over waiting until some implementation can be read through...
sans_souse 2mo ago
My question is do we harness a bootstrap or bootstrap a harness?
- friendzis 2mo ago
  You bootstrap css and harness js
- swiftcoder 2mo ago
  You strap your harness to your bootstraps, and then you can pull yourself up by your own bootstraps... right?
mlrtime 2mo ago
You forgot off by one errors ;)
Shorel 2mo ago
That's the terminology they have chosen because they believe they are "in control". It's a purely psychological thing, not different from calling different DB servers "master" and "slave". When I explain things to people, I say: the LLM is a big mouth, and it is a big mouth without hands. It can only talk. The agent is what gives some hands to the LLM, and then it can do some work.

baxtr 3mo ago

How should his friend know what a harness is?

OutOfHere 3mo ago
Of course everyone knows what a harness is. It is the vest they put on their dogs. Also, construction workers use one. You can buy one on Amazon. As for a coding harness, I prefer the term agentic coding.
friendzis 2mo ago
Having an experienced friend looking over your shoulder and taking notes of every step might help a bit, I reckon
- baxtr 2mo ago
  I thought the idea was to test if she gets along without any help
  - lazyasciiart 2mo ago
    I'm pretty sure the idea of the question "what harness did she use" was to ask the expert recounting this anecdote to include more detail, not suggest that he relay the question to his example friend.
    - baxtr 2mo ago
      The whole point of the anecdote was to showcase that it shouldn’t matter what harness she used. That’s why the question only makes sense if it was relayed to the laywoman, in this case.

draxil 3mo ago

> my friend is a novice and needs extra help with things like: copy pasting the code into a text file I don't think this is using an agent harness.

friendzis 2mo ago
"rawdogging" - as the youth says - weights on local comodore cluster? They are either using some generic web frontend, ala chatgpt, some local app like claude desktop, or programming app like cursor. Each of those will detect that you are "building an app" and will spit out code in one form or another. You have to try really hard and be very explicit that you want the output in some other format than code.

andrew_lettuce 2mo ago

How would an absolute newbie know what a harness is? What an IDE is? That code is represented in a set of files? That some of those files are actually metadata? What metadata is? What GOTO means? That you're suggesting a modified SDLC? None of this is related to intelligence, desire or potential. It's about context and experience. The vast majority of people use their computers as consumption devices, like a TV. If I asked you to "make a movie" where would you start?

phoghed 2mo ago
Why would they need to know any of that? Tons of barely technically literate people at my job crank out webshit POC/demos with Claude desktop.

krisoft 2mo ago

> What harness did you use? I let her do all of it without influencing her choices. She choose the web interface of ChatGPT because she already had an account and that's the tool she was familiar with. While I agree with you it is not an optimal choice, web chatgpt can solve the problem. I just asked it now to do it (in my own words) and it spit out the code in one go.