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The German political decision to not join with Russia and invade Ukraine (via Poland?). Just because it was the right decision doesn't mean there are not downs
by bluGill 3mo ago
The German political decision to not join with Russia and invade Ukraine (via Poland?).
Just because it was the right decision doesn't mean there are not downsides.
- RandomLensman 3mo agoAccepting potential consequences is not the same as oneself cutting things off. Germany did not seek to end supplies then and there. Edit: there was never any chance of Germany invading Ukraine then/joining Russia on any invasion.
- bluGill 3mo agoIt doesn't matter what they wanted to do. What matters is what happened. As a result of their actions they got cut off. If Germany had invaded Ukraine (via Poland?) the gas might still be on. Of course we don't know that because other countries would likely take offense to that action and I'm not willing to predict how the world would change if they had. (I can't even imagine change would cause them to be willing to invade in the first place, much less how everyone else would respond.) Politics often are about the unintended consequences. Often they are also unforeseen.
- RandomLensman 3mo agoGermany joining the Russian invasion was never anything even remotely in the option space at all - utterly inconceivable in 2022. (Not aware of Russia seeking any such support there either.)
- bluGill 3mo agoI think it is clear to everybody that wasn't an possible option. There are consequences for it that though.
- RandomLensman 3mo agoSorry, but I think it is absurd to say there was a Russian reaction because Germany did not join their invasion of Ukraine,
- bluGill 3mo agoThe absurdity is intentional. However it is still correct. If Germany had joined Russia (and got away with it!), there is every reason to think the pipeline would still be flowing.
- emsign 3mo agoUkraine would have blown up the pipeline anyway. And the land pipelines would have been cut off to Germany by the Eastern Europeans. So no, the gas would not still be flowing with a high probability. That's so absurd.
- bluGill 3mo agoIf Germany had gone to war Ukraine would be split between Germany and Russia now and the pipeline would be running. It is absurd to think there was any possibility of Germany going to war on Russia's side, but the result of them doing so is far easier to predict. Of course if they had done that other countries would likely object and so we can go on and on with what could have been (for starters the propaganda would be all different). There are no easy answers and we can never know what would have happened.
- inigyou 3mo agoProbably not directly invading, but there was a strong possibility of Germany supporting the Russian invasion, just as they're doing with the invasion of Iran.
- RandomLensman 3mo agoThere was absolutely no possibility for Germany supporting the Russian invasion.
- inigyou 3mo agoWell I mean they already did support the invasion for a while by buying their gas.
- igl 3mo agoA strong possibility? Where do you get your news from?
- netsharc 3mo agoI think what grandparent is very very fucking poorly trying to say is, Germany/EU could've accepted the "annexation" of Ukraine like it did Crimea in 2014. "Bad Putin! But what can we do."
- inigyou 3mo agoThey could've even sold weapons to Russia. There wouldn't have ever been German soldiers in Ukraine though.
- igl 3mo agoGermany is in no position to go against the USA's geopolitical interests. Sure, they do trade shenanigans sometimes, like with Russian gas, but the relationship with Russia was pretty good before Putin decided to hold power endlessly - he even gave a speech (in German) in the parliament. But in the end of the day, those times are over; only extremist parties are pro-Russian, and Germany still has the 2nd largest US Army presence, including 15-20 US nuclear bombs parked here. It's unthinkable that any government here would go against "Western" interests and support Russia.