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They manage fine in Europe. It’s a cultural issue. If you can’t be arsed working through the minor administrative hassle once (how often do you change the menu.

They manage fine in Europe. It’s a cultural issue. If you can’t be arsed working through the minor administrative hassle once (how often do you change the menu..) to not kill your customers then you shouldn’t be in this business.

voakbasda 2mo ago
I would rather food vendors have the right to refuse service than be subjected to laws that effectively squeeze out smaller operators.
- FireBeyond 2mo ago
  Is your perspective of restaurants, food trucks, sidewalk cafes, etc., in Europe that they're all large market providers, and not smaller operators?
  - voakbasda 2mo ago
    In general, I think the barrier to entry to providing goods and services is now high enough that it discourages ever larger numbers of businesses from ever being started in the first place.
    - nomel 2mo ago
      This is fact, with effort being put into resolving the issue: https://commission.europa.eu/news-and-media/news/bringing-down-barriers-single-market-create-opportunities-all-2025-05-21_en https://commission.europa.eu/news-and-media/news/bringing-do...
- Anamon 2mo ago
  I don't see how it's such a big barrier to business for a food place to have to make sure their staff can answer the question "do you use ingredient X in dish Y?", which, at least in Europe, is sufficient. It's barely a step above asking them to know if the ingredients they use are even safe for consumption, and I'm all for that barrier being held up.
  - maxlybbert 2mo ago
    When I make, say, meat loaf, at home, I know that I use ground beef, Panko, egg, onion, ketchup, vinegar, oregano, and garlic. If somebody asks whether there's ground beef, wheat, onion, tomato, vinegar, oregano, or garlic in the food, I believe a waiter could give a correct answer. But if somebody asks about yeast, or high fructose corn syrup, the waiter might have to ask the cook, and the cook might need to look at the label for the Panko or ketchup (surprise! packaging for restaurants may not have the same information as consumer packaging). If somebody orders, say, ribs, and mentions they are allergic to spices that are found in some barbecue sauces or spice rubs, the waiter isn't going to know (and the cook might not know) if those spices are in the dish, and especially won't know if they're present in a large enough amount to cause a reaction. The FDA does require manufacturers to keep track of the most common allergens ( https://www.fda.gov/food/nutrition-food-labeling-and-critical-foods/food-allergies https://www.fda.gov/food/nutrition-food-labeling-and-critica... ), but if somebody has an uncommon allergy, they're on their own. Restaurants are regulated by state health departments instead of the USDA. California, I believe, has some allergen labeling requirements for its restaurants. Most large restaurants worry enough about liability that they disclose the information (for common allergens) voluntarily.
tokioyoyo 2mo ago
They manage fine in China/Japan. It’s a cultural issue. People aren’t dropping dead from not being catered for their allergies. Look, i’m not some sort of a devil that hates people with allergies. Roughly 15% of my closest friends have dietary restrictions. But we kinda understand the problem and navigate it ourselves, rather than making it someone else’s problem. Really not a big deal.
- Anamon 2mo ago
  > People aren’t dropping dead from not being catered for their allergies. They literally are, though. Restaurants have a choice of refusing service to people with allergies (not allowed in many places; not a great idea anywhere), allowing those with restrictions to bring their own food, or just putting the bloody 2-minute effort of writing on the menu which ingredients they use. Yes, people have died from restaurants doing the last option improperly.
  - tokioyoyo 2mo ago
    I don't agree with that - https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1323893025000796 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S132389302.... It's really not that big of a problem here. "In Japan, according to the Ministry of Health, Labor and Welfare's vital statistics, about 50 cases of fatal anaphylaxis are reported each year.4,5 In 2020, the most frequent cause of fatal anaphylaxis was bee or wasp stings (13 cases), followed by drugs (8 cases) and foods (2 cases)".

voakbasda 2mo ago

I would rather food vendors have the right to refuse service than be subjected to laws that effectively squeeze out smaller operators.

FireBeyond 2mo ago
Is your perspective of restaurants, food trucks, sidewalk cafes, etc., in Europe that they're all large market providers, and not smaller operators?
- voakbasda 2mo ago
  In general, I think the barrier to entry to providing goods and services is now high enough that it discourages ever larger numbers of businesses from ever being started in the first place.
  - nomel 2mo ago
    This is fact, with effort being put into resolving the issue: https://commission.europa.eu/news-and-media/news/bringing-down-barriers-single-market-create-opportunities-all-2025-05-21_en https://commission.europa.eu/news-and-media/news/bringing-do...
Anamon 2mo ago
I don't see how it's such a big barrier to business for a food place to have to make sure their staff can answer the question "do you use ingredient X in dish Y?", which, at least in Europe, is sufficient. It's barely a step above asking them to know if the ingredients they use are even safe for consumption, and I'm all for that barrier being held up.
- maxlybbert 2mo ago
  When I make, say, meat loaf, at home, I know that I use ground beef, Panko, egg, onion, ketchup, vinegar, oregano, and garlic. If somebody asks whether there's ground beef, wheat, onion, tomato, vinegar, oregano, or garlic in the food, I believe a waiter could give a correct answer. But if somebody asks about yeast, or high fructose corn syrup, the waiter might have to ask the cook, and the cook might need to look at the label for the Panko or ketchup (surprise! packaging for restaurants may not have the same information as consumer packaging). If somebody orders, say, ribs, and mentions they are allergic to spices that are found in some barbecue sauces or spice rubs, the waiter isn't going to know (and the cook might not know) if those spices are in the dish, and especially won't know if they're present in a large enough amount to cause a reaction. The FDA does require manufacturers to keep track of the most common allergens ( https://www.fda.gov/food/nutrition-food-labeling-and-critical-foods/food-allergies https://www.fda.gov/food/nutrition-food-labeling-and-critica... ), but if somebody has an uncommon allergy, they're on their own. Restaurants are regulated by state health departments instead of the USDA. California, I believe, has some allergen labeling requirements for its restaurants. Most large restaurants worry enough about liability that they disclose the information (for common allergens) voluntarily.

tokioyoyo 2mo ago

They manage fine in China/Japan. It’s a cultural issue. People aren’t dropping dead from not being catered for their allergies. Look, i’m not some sort of a devil that hates people with allergies. Roughly 15% of my closest friends have dietary restrictions. But we kinda understand the problem and navigate it ourselves, rather than making it someone else’s problem. Really not a big deal.

Anamon 2mo ago
> People aren’t dropping dead from not being catered for their allergies. They literally are, though. Restaurants have a choice of refusing service to people with allergies (not allowed in many places; not a great idea anywhere), allowing those with restrictions to bring their own food, or just putting the bloody 2-minute effort of writing on the menu which ingredients they use. Yes, people have died from restaurants doing the last option improperly.
- tokioyoyo 2mo ago
  I don't agree with that - https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1323893025000796 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S132389302.... It's really not that big of a problem here. "In Japan, according to the Ministry of Health, Labor and Welfare's vital statistics, about 50 cases of fatal anaphylaxis are reported each year.4,5 In 2020, the most frequent cause of fatal anaphylaxis was bee or wasp stings (13 cases), followed by drugs (8 cases) and foods (2 cases)".