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I find your framing somewhat historically inaccurate. China did not make an "autocratic bargain" with its people. Democracy and Liberalism are offshoots of Chri

I find your framing somewhat historically inaccurate. China did not make an "autocratic bargain" with its people. Democracy and Liberalism are offshoots of Christian culture that originated in Europe and spread to the former European colonies (including to Venezuela and Argentina) and post-WWII to the allies. Although China flirted briefly with liberalism and democracy those remained foreign concepts and did not permeate Chinese culture. So therefore to me a more correct historical reading is that China, a fairly insular culture, was pretty much always ruled as an authoritarian inward focused realm and it still is today. I think it is also an unjustified assumption that China would fare better under a liberal democratic regime. For example, currently the CCP keeps all the Chinese oligarchs in check. A liberal democratic China would find it much harder to control those oligarchs. Argentina and Venezuela are completely different situations where the population is a mix of different cultures and ethnicities and unlike China they had been injected with a heavy dose of western liberal democratic tradition before they regressed back to authoritarianism. Bottom line is, I think people tend to have this really weird blind spot to culture and history when they discuss politics.

Hasz 2mo ago
> China did not make an "autocratic bargain" with its people For a good review: https://moderndiplomacy.eu/2025/10/05/chinas-authoritarian-model-stability-today-risks-tomorrow/ https://moderndiplomacy.eu/2025/10/05/chinas-authoritarian-m... Shangahi went from a dusty fishing village to one of the largest, most populous metropolises in <50years. > Democracy and Liberalism are offshoots of Christian culture cmon, democracy as a word should tell you that is not be true. Earliest is probably Greek, about 500 BC. Notably, this is before Christian culture existed, unless you want to talk about the "borrowing" from older religions. > China flirted briefly with liberalism and democracy Otherwise known as the Chinese Civil War :) > China, a fairly insular culture Modern China, 90% Han Chinese. Han were not always on top, notably China was ruled by outsiders (most famously the Qing imo), but also Liao, Jin, Yuan dynasties. Phrase is "conquest dynasty".
fmajid 2mo ago
> Democracy and Liberalism are offshoots of Christian culture That would be news to the pagan ancient Athenians who invented democracy (although the Indus Valley Civilization may have beaten them to it). The Athenians were clear-eyed about the dangers to democracy and developed procedures like ostracism to deal with the threat from the inside.
dagenleg 2mo ago
Taiwan is liberal democratic china. It's doing quite okay.
- Sabinus 2mo ago
  Security concerns aside, it's a big part of why the Chinese don't like it so much. Same with the Russians and Ukraine. It's embarrassing for nationalist narratives if there's a group of your people that prosper under the Other system.
thrance 2mo ago
> Democracy and Liberalism are offshoots of Christian culture This is completely wrong. "Christian culture" was perfectly content with feudalism and the absolute monarchy for over a millenia. The French Revolution was explicitly secular and anti-clerical, because the King had total support from the Church. Similarly, "Christian culture" was used to justify slavery. So when it comes to Liberalism, can we correctly attribute it to the Enlightenment thinkers instead of the obscurantist Church?

Hasz 2mo ago

> China did not make an "autocratic bargain" with its people For a good review: https://moderndiplomacy.eu/2025/10/05/chinas-authoritarian-model-stability-today-risks-tomorrow/ https://moderndiplomacy.eu/2025/10/05/chinas-authoritarian-m... Shangahi went from a dusty fishing village to one of the largest, most populous metropolises in <50years. > Democracy and Liberalism are offshoots of Christian culture cmon, democracy as a word should tell you that is not be true. Earliest is probably Greek, about 500 BC. Notably, this is before Christian culture existed, unless you want to talk about the "borrowing" from older religions. > China flirted briefly with liberalism and democracy Otherwise known as the Chinese Civil War :) > China, a fairly insular culture Modern China, 90% Han Chinese. Han were not always on top, notably China was ruled by outsiders (most famously the Qing imo), but also Liao, Jin, Yuan dynasties. Phrase is "conquest dynasty".

fmajid 2mo ago

> Democracy and Liberalism are offshoots of Christian culture That would be news to the pagan ancient Athenians who invented democracy (although the Indus Valley Civilization may have beaten them to it). The Athenians were clear-eyed about the dangers to democracy and developed procedures like ostracism to deal with the threat from the inside.

dagenleg 2mo ago

Taiwan is liberal democratic china. It's doing quite okay.

Sabinus 2mo ago
Security concerns aside, it's a big part of why the Chinese don't like it so much. Same with the Russians and Ukraine. It's embarrassing for nationalist narratives if there's a group of your people that prosper under the Other system.

thrance 2mo ago

> Democracy and Liberalism are offshoots of Christian culture This is completely wrong. "Christian culture" was perfectly content with feudalism and the absolute monarchy for over a millenia. The French Revolution was explicitly secular and anti-clerical, because the King had total support from the Church. Similarly, "Christian culture" was used to justify slavery. So when it comes to Liberalism, can we correctly attribute it to the Enlightenment thinkers instead of the obscurantist Church?